Dreamline anamoly, your insight is requested.

[allowthenow]

I've read and re-read the dreamline section and realize that it's written for one off type of situations, e.g., earn a 1st degree black belt in Shotokan, learn Hindi, travel to X, purchase custom suits, etc. But my dream doesn't fall into this kind of category.

Here's the deal for me: of course I have some of these exciting wants but much more to the core is liberating myself financially. Thus my dream, and the only one that really matters, is to create a source of revenue that earns me enough $/month so that I can wake up in the morning and be free to do whatever I please and not feel like I'm slave to the dollar, which I am now causing me severe misery. I realize I need to take a number (but then again, how many people actually take steps to do something about it?)

So in my description in the 'Having' section it reads: Create an automated source of revenue that earns me $12,500/month, $416/day. Then the cost of this dream is really just the start up costs of creating the muse, which is different from the cost of a trip to London to purchase suits on Savile Row (also on the dreamline).

I'm asking experienced 4hww students who have actualized dreamlines: does this sound reasonable? Or should I build in some of the one offs? I want to be totally honest with myself here though and have come to the conclusion that nothing else matters besides busting out of this prison, thus that is what I need to laser in on. :eek:

[kamakiri]

I will burst your bubble here. It is completely unreasonable, and not dreamlining at all. Heck, if you have no goals, then quit your job and go homestead (http://www.howtohomestead.org/) in an RV.

Making an absurd arbitrary number your goal will not help you get there. Heck. I might as well just save time and quote myself here (http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=3260&highlight=dreamline+kamakiri) (read the thread I linked to there and save us both some time):

TMI of $500 a day? Were you planning on buying Neverland Ranch? You could buy 5 new Ferraris with that kind of income. You could buy a $6 million house and still have more than enough money left over to cover the payments on a new Porsche, yacht and take a trip overseas 3 weeks a month.

The whole process of calculating your TMI is designed to cut out clutter and give you an idea of a realistic monthly income to shoot for. Heck Tim's TMI is $6,000 a month ($4k if you cut out the Aston Martin). Why so high?

[Griffin]

I think you should be honest with yourself. Financial liberation doesn't happen overnight and you can make great progress in the next year. The only real problem with your scenario is that it's so improbable that you'll get discouraged easily. Every day that you make $50 will pale in comparison to this enormous number that you've set for yourself -- even though $50/day is pretty good.

I am in debt as well, with much of my debt accounts being little $100 items. With just a bit more money, I could be mostly out of debt this year. So that gets dreamlined if I want to. I do understand the drive to be totally debt-free ASAP, but don't make that the only thing you're reaching for.

I've never been out of the country, so a trip to Thailand would be awesome for me. Upper-end it costs $40 or so per day to live extremely well -- so if I wanted to live there full-time it would be $1200 a month. Not that I do, just saying.

What are some of the other things you want to accomplish?

One I dug deeper, I found that I really wanted to get my license back (haven't driven in years, no car etc) -- what is the cost for that? First I thought $22'000+ for the car I really want (http://www.smartusa.com/smart-fortwo-passion-coupe.aspx?model=passion_coupe) plus all the other costs. But, I can pay a lot less on a car loan per year than buying outright. That brings the costs involved way down and into reasonable territory since I'm not looking at laying down twenty grand in the next year.

[allowthenow]

I appreciate your responses...

I don't think $150k/year is that high but I will look at the number again ($30k/year or $2500 TMI would liberate me completely). I chose it because that amount would allow me to do all the things I want to do after breaking free of my work situation and because it's toward the top of the 28% tax bracket (I don't want to be on the lower end of any tax bracket because you get hit harder).

To be clear: there are plenty of items on my dreamline but working toward any one of them (with the exception of the trip to London) specifically for having the experience, isn't worth it when my job situation is what it is right now--I can't go a single step further doing work for the sake of work, so transforming this situation is dream #1.

I think my first milestone then is $15k or $30k year. The former = 50% liberation (which would be huge) and the latter = 100% liberation.

Will think about this more.

[networkmemetics]

Hey Dude,

I am in exactly the same boat and mindset as you. Kamakiri has a different take on what the 4HWW is for him, and people who look at a number and said "Thats too much" are selling themselves short.

Have a big goal, so few people think big thatthere isn't much competition at the top!

My goal was $500 a day.....the way that I approach my muse creation is so different because I am structuring my business for growth, not just an extra few bucks here or there.

You can find me thread somewhere here.....I'll update it to bring it back to the top.

[allowthenow]

Hey Dude,

You can find me thread somewhere here.....I'll update it to bring it back to the top.

Thanks for doing that, I read it through... You're right, we do have a similar ambition. Good luck! :)

I've to come peace with a TDI of $100 for starters, that would liberate me entirely. I have no serious obligation at home (eg, wife, kid, etc.) other than my cat, so it would be easy to live in India or elsewhere to further decrease my expenses, and hopefully, the muse would scale well.

My next step: decide on the muse.

[Bradinator]

I will agree with networkmemetics (as I did in the thread kamkiri linked).

Your number isn't too high.


But, just making up a number without any reasoning behind it, is probably not helpful and isn't really dreamlining. If there aren't any concrete dreams behind it, than its probably going to end up being either a big disappointment that you don't make it there, or an ever increasing amount.


You should consider what you think you will be spending the money on. If you don't have any dreams, it won't cost $416/day to sit around watching TV.

I want to be flying planes, as well as some other expensive hobbies. So, my TDI might be higher than someone who wants to learn new languages every month. Neither is wrong. Renting a plane is around $100/ hr even for the smallest.

Where I really differ from what I think Kamkiri's opinion and (maybe) Tim's is on leasing/renting everything. Also, the book leaves out some realities of life. Taxes, healthcare, savings aren't mentioned in the book, but are necessities.

Anyways, best of luck to you.

[allowthenow]

I will agree with networkmemetics (as I did in the thread kamkiri linked).

You should consider what you think you will be spending the money on. If you don't have any dreams, it won't cost $416/day to sit around watching TV.

Anyways, best of luck to you.

Thanks Brad... Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of stuff to fill the dreamline ... but when it came to prioritizing and starring the dreams that would change everything, order of business #1 is to create a muse that enables me to not have to think about money, so that I can turn my focus to more experiential dreamline items, as well as my humanitarian work.

This thread helped because it made me realize I can shoot for far less (a more "realistic" number) and still have the same result as shooting for the high number. It's much more important for me to get free of work-for-work right now than it is to travel to London and purchase custom suits. But all those fun things are in the back of my mind as I work toward the central goal.

[Monkiii]

I'd say that the point here is to aim for experiences rather than numbers because:

a) At the end of the day experiences are more fulfilling, while really the number is just a way of enabling new experiences
b) Many times we can find ways to get the experiences we really want for much less than the number we think it would require.

I would suggest that rather than aiming for a meta goal (EG become financially free, achieve all my goals, make $2000 a week) that you aim for the experiences you dream you could have if you achieved these (eg connecting with the people who are most important to you in an exotic country without needing to ever check your bank account).

Who cares about money if you're not going to spend it on something? Who cares about "freedom" if you don't know what freedom you're longing for? Freedom to do what?

Vague goals like "freedom" and "more money" sound good to reason, but do a lousy job of getting us to do anything. Abstractness kills motivation dead. Meaningful specifics + imagination + application are what make sense to me.

[Griffin]

Where I really differ from what I think Kamkiri's opinion and (maybe) Tim's is on leasing/renting everything. Also, the book leaves out some realities of life. Taxes, healthcare, savings aren't mentioned in the book, but are necessities.

Taxes and healthcare especially are really hard to generalize. Some people have an effective tax rate less than 5% and plenty of people pay over $500/month in healthcare or insurance. The variables are all over the place, so I'd rather plan for that sort of thing on my own (he does have a spot for these on the worksheets).

I don't expect the book to be all things to all people, and it works well for me so far.

I'm not big on leasing to be honest, but I will make an exception for a well-made, reasonably-priced car. By leasing I will pay more, but will be able to split the expense with my long-time girlfriend.

Who cares about money if you're not going to spend it on something? Who cares about "freedom" if you don't know what freedom you're longing for? Freedom to do what?

Vague goals like "freedom" and "more money" sound good to reason, but do a lousy job of getting us to do anything. Abstractness kills motivation dead. Meaningful specifics + imagination + application are what make sense to me.

I don't know the thread starter personally, but freedom from substantial debt means freedom from harassing phone calls etc. Lacking substantial debt is just the vehicle for not having to deal with debt collectors. I don't have to deal with any phone calls, but I've known people who have and it can be soul-crushing.

But I agree that you have to define goals and fears -- I am an enemy of vagueness :p For me, nothing kills my motivation faster than feeling that a goal I've set is impossibly high.

[clanshrapnel]

I thought one of TF's main messages in his book was that you're not supposed to earn money for the sake of earning money with no end-goal in mind, and once you do have an end-goal in mind, you will often find that your original goal of money is often too high and/or attainable with your current income.

By 'defining' your goal as 'to make enough money to do what you want,' you're putting off the inevitable (i.e., defining what truly brings you happiness) and defeating the whole purpose of dreamlining.

[networkmemetics]

Don't forget Tim wrote the book when he didn't have to worry about money any more. His income was >100K per year so he didn't have to worry so much as someone in the <100K club.

And he talks about leasing a car when your TMI is X dollars per day.

The lending climate has changed - you need more money down
If you can't make a payment - ie. your muse goes down, you are in a bit of trouble.

The book was great way to build the desire towards freedom. We all have different definitions of freedom, and thus different paths towards our goals.

[allowthenow]

I'd say that the point here is to aim for experiences rather than numbers because:

Who cares about money if you're not going to spend it on something? Who cares about "freedom" if you don't know what freedom you're longing for? Freedom to do what?

Vague goals like "freedom" and "more money" sound good to reason, but do a lousy job of getting us to do anything. Abstractness kills motivation dead. Meaningful specifics + imagination + application are what make sense to me.

Great comment ... I completely agree. I must not be making it clear that I do indeed have these meaningful specifics (nice term) but all of them pale in comparison to being able to automate the generation of income for my minimum monthly expenditures.

Still, what you helped me realize is that I should build in at least one dreamline item in conjunction with this, eg a celebration of some sort. :D

[birdman]

I havn't has chance to read the entire thread as I'm in a rush and on a low information diet but i'll give you my take. I read somewhere something along the lines of 'goals are there to serve as inspiration to you, the day a goal stops inspiring you is the day it looses it's purpose. It was probably much more eloquently put but you probably get the gist.

the problem with smart goals is that they aren't inspiring enough. Tim Ferris also touches on this in 4hww. It's crowded at the bottom, people find it hard to move up in the lower ranks because really their goals are arbituary and deep down not inspiring enough.

It's important to stay away from specific numbers only. the point of dreamlining is to make your goals more concrete and to enthuse you with more energy. I can tell you right now that writing this thread is effortless for me because it's a lot more exciting, inspiring and 'on purpose' for me that the sometimes tedius article writing i do for one of my muse's.

When you talk about the free life you'll be living there wil be millions of associations and images in your head regarding that. You need to get in touch with what those are. Numbers aren't inspiring, it's what you do with them that is inspiring.

Getting up in the morning and putting your heart and soul into numbers is hard. Getting up and putting my heart and soul into an eternal life of cruising the nile with friends and my wife sipping wine and eating beautifull food is.

Often you find you start a project with massive energy and enthusiasm, you put all your energy into it and after a week, sometimes more sometime less, you get burnt and fizzled out. it's important to have specific dates and things in mind to link those good feelings etc. that you'll enjoy with the work you are doing right now.

Even if it's a case of just putting 'waking up every mornign and then deciding to go back to sleep because i live a free life and don't have to answer to anybody or do anything I do no feel like doing'. But set a date to it. It's scary to ask questions about what you really want cos sometimes you spend your whole life trying to avoid it.

Another reason for the specifics of dreamlines is that by nature the human mind blows thigns out of proportion and makes them out to be a lot larger than they actually are. Read Jonny Wolfe or whoever he is's posts about fulfilling his dreamline in thailand. He's barely built the amazingly amazing muse we all talk about, yet he's living the dream. We tend to think that we need to achieve something supremely amazing to be able to deserve and live the life we want, a dreamline reminds us it's much closer than we think.

This reminds me, I need to go re-write my dreamline. Although I sometimes disagree with Kamikari he gave me some good advice once when I first joined this forum and that was to go back and focus on lifestyle design and DL'ing rather than my muse. If you're in a car and you don't know where you're going it's a lot harder than when you have clear directions to where you want to be.

[kamakiri]

Thanks for the kind words Bird. I think this is what you were looking for with the car analogy:

Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?
The Cat: That depends a good deal on where you want to get to
Alice: I don't much care where.
The Cat: Then it doesn't much matter which way you go.

(P48 v2.0)

[birdman]

That's the one.

I didn't even realise I was thinking about that at the time untill I read your post lol.

[REOBULK]

Wherever you go, there you are.....

Any thought that it magically becomes better someplace else just because it's cheaper to live there is misguided.....all the money in the world won't make a difference if the rest isn't whole...

[allowthenow]

I havn't has chance to read the entire thread as I'm in a rush and on a low information diet but i'll give you my take. I read somewhere something along the lines of 'goals are there to serve as inspiration to you, the day a goal stops inspiring you is the day it looses it's purpose. It was probably much more eloquently put but you probably get the gist.

the problem with smart goals is that they aren't inspiring enough. Tim Ferris also touches on this in 4hww. It's crowded at the bottom, people find it hard to move up in the lower ranks because really their goals are arbituary and deep down not inspiring enough.

It's important to stay away from specific numbers only. the point of dreamlining is to make your goals more concrete and to enthuse you with more energy. I can tell you right now that writing this thread is effortless for me because it's a lot more exciting, inspiring and 'on purpose' for me that the sometimes tedius article writing i do for one of my muse's.

When you talk about the free life you'll be living there wil be millions of associations and images in your head regarding that. You need to get in touch with what those are. Numbers aren't inspiring, it's what you do with them that is inspiring.

Getting up in the morning and putting your heart and soul into numbers is hard. Getting up and putting my heart and soul into an eternal life of cruising the nile with friends and my wife sipping wine and eating beautifull food is.

Often you find you start a project with massive energy and enthusiasm, you put all your energy into it and after a week, sometimes more sometime less, you get burnt and fizzled out. it's important to have specific dates and things in mind to link those good feelings etc. that you'll enjoy with the work you are doing right now.

Even if it's a case of just putting 'waking up every mornign and then deciding to go back to sleep because i live a free life and don't have to answer to anybody or do anything I do no feel like doing'. But set a date to it. It's scary to ask questions about what you really want cos sometimes you spend your whole life trying to avoid it.

Another reason for the specifics of dreamlines is that by nature the human mind blows thigns out of proportion and makes them out to be a lot larger than they actually are. Read Jonny Wolfe or whoever he is's posts about fulfilling his dreamline in thailand. He's barely built the amazingly amazing muse we all talk about, yet he's living the dream. We tend to think that we need to achieve something supremely amazing to be able to deserve and live the life we want, a dreamline reminds us it's much closer than we think.

This reminds me, I need to go re-write my dreamline. Although I sometimes disagree with Kamikari he gave me some good advice once when I first joined this forum and that was to go back and focus on lifestyle design and DL'ing rather than my muse. If you're in a car and you don't know where you're going it's a lot harder than when you have clear directions to where you want to be.

Well said man. I printing this out and putting in my 4hww folder. Thanks.

[FrozenCanuck]

There is NOTHING wrong with having a TMI of $12k per month, and even Tim says not to aim low.

The MAJOR problem with your "dreamline", in my opinion, is that it just plain sucks. Say you make your 12k per month Muse happen ... then what? Sit on the couch and eat chips all day?

You will go bored, stir crazy, and have no clue what to do with yourself. THAT is the point of dreamlining. You need a plan for what you will do that excites you to live a full and complete life. Money is a MEANS goal, not an end goal. Dreamlining is about end goals.