The Manhattan Project to End Fad Diets 214 Comments
Today, a dream of mine came true.
Imagine what could be done if we had an X-men-like group of the world’s best scientists, independently funded and uninfluenced by industry, tackling the most important questions in nutrition?
Starting today, we have such a group: the Nutrition Science Initiative (NuSI).
I am thrilled to be a part of their Board of Advisors, alongside a diverse group of experts including David Berkowitz (Ziff Brothers Investments) and Nassim Nicholas Taleb (of Black Swan fame), among others.
Funded off the bat by a foundation started by billionaire hedge fund manager John Arnold, and supported by a world-class Scientific Advisory Board, NuSI is off to races.
Born from a shared vision of its co-founders, Peter Attia, M.D. and Gary Taubes, this non-profit will fund research that applies first-of-its-kind, rigorous scientific experimentation to the field of nutrition…
Contributing researchers will span the dietary spectrum, including scientists who personally adhere to veganism; low-carb, high-protein diets; and everything in between. This purposeful “agree to disagree” mix is integral to the success of the project, as biases are discarded in favor of solid, experimental data.
No hidden agenda, no corporate interests, nothing to do with food subsidies or ulterior motives. Just good science. It’s about time, right?
Kevin Schulman, M.D., Director of the Duke Clinical Research Institute and the Center for Clinical and Genetic Economics at Duke University, had this to say:
“…Do we really have good science to support our diet recommendations? The answer is convincingly no. The largest public health crisis in the United States is being addressed with the type of data that we question in every other field of medicine: observational studies subject to selection bias, and small scale, short-term clinical studies which can’t offer definitive results…
It’s well past time for an effort such as that proposed by NuSI–to test our hypotheses with rigorous science. We owe this effort to the public and to our children who otherwise could suffer from the disastrous consequences of our scientific hubris on this issue.”
Here are two slideshows that introduce NuSI in more depth. The first is short (16 slides), the second is more in-depth (35 slides):
David Ludwig, M.D., Ph.D., Harvard Medical School Professor of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, echoes my sentiments exactly:
“…The need for philanthropic support of nutrition research has never been greater. With a willingness to focus its resources on the most difficult and risky projects, an organization like NuSI can have a transformative impact, not only on scientific understanding, but also on public health.”
And in closing, Peter Attia, M.D., the President of NuSI:
“Without all the elements – money, time and talent – working in concert, research efforts will continue to fall short of what is necessary to solve this problem [of obesity and related diseases]… NuSI will be successful because we are bringing together the best scientific minds and giving them the time and resources they require to find the answers we all need.”
—
Are you ready to settle some of these neverending debates, once and for all? I certainly am.
Posted on September 12th, 2012
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214 Comments
Jeff Slobotski — September 12th, 2012, 8:27 pm
Thanks for the continued hustle, and inspiration Tim! Love to watch what you continue building…
Matthew Karsten — September 12th, 2012, 9:48 pm
Yes! Constantly amazed with your projects. Expose all the bad diet advice that’s lurking out there.
Scott Bradley — September 12th, 2012, 8:28 pm
It will be awesome to see what this organization publishes, and how this research will directly impact the future of humanity!
Michael Murphy — September 12th, 2012, 8:28 pm
Dude you rock. Have both your books and can’t wait to see the awesome results that this endeavor will surely bring.
Patrice — September 12th, 2012, 10:50 pm
Really curious to see what book 3 will bring, must have kept Tim busy, nearly 1 month between blogs! Then again, this is a great one. Think Tim has thousands of test cases to bring to the NSI thanks to the 4 hour body…
Been doing a mixture of the slow carb diet and primal diet, which basically is less carbs than the “officially recommended”, but as shown on slide 5 of the smaller pack, increasing of carbs and lowering of fats has had drastically bad impact on obesity rates! Cutting that down has meant shedding weight easily and increasing energy. Cant be bad can it!!
Jeff Ramos (@ohjefframos) — September 12th, 2012, 8:29 pm
The Director of Communications and Development job pages are broken, sadly.
Would love to learn more.
Tim Ferriss — September 12th, 2012, 8:53 pm
Hi Jeff,
I’ll check on this ASAP. Thanks!
Tim
Peter Attia — September 12th, 2012, 9:08 pm
Fixed. Thanks for catching Jeff and Tim.
Aaron Bell — September 16th, 2012, 12:35 am
I’m now redirecting all of my charitable/giving funds and efforts this cause…thanks, Tim!
Now, about the links…I get a page with the text, “Error establishing a database connection”
Thanks again for making us aware of this cause.
Your Friend,
~ Aaron
Peter Nguyen — September 12th, 2012, 8:30 pm
Amazing and FINALLY. I can’t wait to see what’s going to come out of this.
Quora — September 12th, 2012, 8:31 pm
What company is working on the “Manhattan Project for Nutrition” and is backed by Founders Fund?…
It’s likely that Peter is referring to the Nutritional Science Initiative. Tim Ferriss (who is on the Board of Advisors) explicitly calls it the “Manhattan Project to End Fad Diets”: > > Imagine what could be done if we had an X-men-like group of th…
Dan — September 12th, 2012, 8:32 pm
Awesome. I hope that such a logical, research based group with no corporate interests will finally be able to provide real and sound information to the public. You’re the shit, Tim!
Billy Murphy — September 12th, 2012, 8:33 pm
Awesome, really interested to see what comes of this. Congrats on the new project Tim!
Carlos — September 12th, 2012, 8:34 pm
“No hidden agenda, no corporate interests, nothing to do with food subsidies or ulterior motives.”, sounds too good to be true even coming from you Tim. I’ll see
Marko — September 12th, 2012, 8:58 pm
(ºº-)
Gavin Doran — September 12th, 2012, 8:34 pm
What interested in this project, Tim?
Doug jones — September 12th, 2012, 8:34 pm
This is fantastic ! I always wanted to write or hoped someone would write a nutritional version of the Fooled by randomness. I hope this team makes it happen! Is Dave Asprey involved?
Matt T — September 12th, 2012, 8:35 pm
About time indeed. Can’t wait to see what comes out of this!
Enoch Sears — September 12th, 2012, 8:36 pm
Yes it is about time. This will be awesome.
Andrew Baird — September 12th, 2012, 8:37 pm
Will you also be looking at Genetic Differences? I think the days of one size fits all is gone and we now have the technology to compare these and consider their impact.
Matt Beswick — February 5th, 2013, 8:44 am
This is a key question. Anyone know of any research on this?
Bernard Robertson-Dunn — February 5th, 2013, 3:51 pm
No, but I suggest that researchers should not assume that everyone is the same. There needs to be some categorization so that different approaches can be aimed at different types.
If they don’t, it would be like looking at the whole population and concluding that the average person is half man, half woman. Not very useful and wrong.
Sean Murphy — September 12th, 2012, 8:38 pm
Very cool Tim, keep up the good work!
Jim Johnson — September 12th, 2012, 8:39 pm
Holy crap, this is awesome! It’s about freakin time this happened!
Mike — September 12th, 2012, 8:39 pm
Thank you for this. This is among the most important things that we can do as a species right now. While Large Hadron Colliders and rovers on mars may be exciting and inspirational, it’s great to see people pursuing practical science that will positively impact people’s lives on a daily basis.
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Sean — September 12th, 2012, 8:40 pm
AH! This sounds killer. Def. about time
Alex — September 12th, 2012, 8:42 pm
Awesome, this is a really great step forward. I really hate how every time I see a new piece of research I have to evaluate the financial gains behind it.. or the agenda… A lot of meat is bad research can be linked to vegeterian groups or PETA etc..
Matt Beswick — February 5th, 2013, 8:47 am
It’s almost as though “real science” must be impartial.
Kevin — September 12th, 2012, 8:44 pm
“No hidden agenda, no corporate interests, nothing to do with food subsidies or ulterior motives. Just good science. It’s about time, right?”
Yes, it is. And it’s sad it’s taken this long! Can’t wait to see some results.
Dale Larson — September 12th, 2012, 8:46 pm
Is there a betting pool yet for results? I’d like to place a bet on there not being one right answer. I suspect you’ll find that different things work for different folks, and that for most folks more than one thing works well. I can’t imagine how all the fads around high/low carb/fat/protein could have persisted without such variation. What’s going to be awesome is to better understand which variants are truly healthy for which people.
AskRonReed — September 12th, 2012, 8:48 pm
Tell me more and count me in….
Peter Attia — September 12th, 2012, 8:54 pm
Tim, we’re so honored to have you on our Advisory Board. With the help of people like you and your readers we WILL change the world. It won’t happen overnight, but the world our children will grow up in will be even better than one we’re growing up in.
Frank Talaf — September 12th, 2012, 8:56 pm
The concept sounds great, but the board is missing the most important demographic: Naturopathic Physician(s). Their knowledge of whole food nutrition, combined with knowledge of inflammatory food, is far beyond the conventional wisdom.
Tony S — September 20th, 2012, 11:16 am
Excellent point. Continued simple cause-and-effect studies will continue to provide contradictory results. If we can approach our concerns with a holistic/systemic mindset, then we might begin to reveal the truth with clarity.
Brian — September 12th, 2012, 9:02 pm
This is pretty awesome. I was just thinking about something like this earlier today. Really looking forward to what they learn.
John Fotheringham — September 12th, 2012, 9:10 pm
Just what the doctor—I mean self-empowered, self-experimenter—ordered!
Zach — September 12th, 2012, 9:11 pm
Baller.
Do you plan on doing a 4HB2.0 to include the findings from this research? I’m sure the findings will be consistent with yours, but this movement could really benefit from your voice. Glad to see you’re on as an advisor.
bloo — September 12th, 2012, 9:11 pm
i’m hoping answers and results can be revealed in short span of time. it shouldn’t take decades to figure all this out!
Francis Tapon — September 12th, 2012, 9:17 pm
Let’s just hope it’s objective. The slide show already implies a correlation between increased carb consumption and increased obesity. Let’s hope that they don’t jump to the conclusions before looking at objective data (as hard as that will be).
Lon David — September 12th, 2012, 9:19 pm
About time. So hard to find good, quality, objective data in a field with so many dollar signs. Looking very forward to it.
Autumn — September 12th, 2012, 9:22 pm
Wow! This is a fantastic project. I am very much interested in seeing what you discover.
Rich — September 12th, 2012, 9:36 pm
Amazing. So cool that this a philanthropic venture.
I’d love to see something similar for cutting edge mental health stuff. Methods such as Neurofeedback and some of the new depth psychotherapies (IFS, Coherence therapy, Hoffman Process) are getting seriously great results for people – like really, truly fixing anxiety,depression,trauma – and are in desperate need of funding for some weighty studies that will actually convince people that hey, this stuff fixes brains.
It’s time to get past the drug companies and get to the stuff that really heals peoples bodies and minds.
Ryan Marrinan — September 12th, 2012, 9:50 pm
About time!
Shane Duquette — September 12th, 2012, 9:51 pm
From the sounds of it this is looking pretty much exclusively into obesity and solving the health problems that it results in. Will the scope widen?
I’m wondering if this is something I should check back on as a naturally skinny dude who deals exclusively with naturally skinny dudes. We’re all looking to build muscle, improve our health, improve our athleticism, improve our strength, improve our energy levels, look wonderful, increase the enjoyment of our food, eliminate unnecessary dietary restrictions, etc.
We’re passionate about the most important questions in nutrition … except for obesity.
Tony S — September 20th, 2012, 11:21 am
Yes, I’ll second that. The relationship betwen health and nutrition involves a lot more than merely reducing excess weight.
Bruce Martin — September 12th, 2012, 9:56 pm
It’s an awesome project, and absolutely time something like this came together. The only flaw I saw was the thesis from the longer slideshow. Every marketer knows you need education plus motivation to get people to act.
Luckily, I think there’s someone on the board of advisers who can help them with that.
Chad — September 12th, 2012, 10:06 pm
I question who the science is for though, I promote the simplicity of what food once was, before science, research papers and the need to out shine corruption. To much time and possible creativity seems to be wasted on beating the same dead horse.
Susan Holland — September 13th, 2012, 10:39 am
For Chad… an honest study like this looks at truth, which can made us free from beating dead horses.
Betty Rocker — September 12th, 2012, 10:08 pm
You’re a real life superhero for getting involved in this Tim – how do we eat has become the loudest question being asked by people from every walk of life I every arena as America starts to understand that our abundance of choice doesn’t necessarily equate to healthy .
I can’t wait to see the results of this study!!
Betty Rocker
Matt — September 12th, 2012, 10:24 pm
This is really, really cool, and really needed.
The question is, will Peter and Gary allow the science to take them where it will, or will they cling to their own pet theories?
Tim Ferriss — September 12th, 2012, 11:02 pm
Thanks for the comments, all!
Hi Matt,
We all have our theories, me included, and the key is setting up good process (and checks and balances) so that the scientific method prevents any type of experimenter bias. This starts with study design and funding sources, of course.
I am very optimistic about NuSI and have spent time with both Gary and Peter, who came to their current beliefs by following the available evidence. As NuSI produces more data, I trust they will continue to follow where it all leads.
All the best,
Tim
Cortney — September 13th, 2012, 8:28 am
This is very exciting, but it would logically follow that this kind of research can only be valid when done over several lifetimes–to see the long term effects from birth to death of thousands of test subjects, right? So what is the time frame in which this Initiative intends to publish results? Because I would be skeptical of anything released before at LEAST 20 years–or am I being a Negative nay-saying Nelly? (I do NOT want to be THAT chick, she is AWFUL at parties!)
Paul Dennis — October 3rd, 2012, 1:12 pm
Cortney,
I see where you’re coming from, but at the same time, I do think there can be some information released within even the next year or two as preliminary findings or whatever you want to call them. My reasoning is that if I personally ate at McDonalds every day and didn’t exercise at all, there would be some pretty big results in one year. On the other hand, if I ate chicken, fish, and veggies all year and exercised a lot, there would also be huge results. So a change in nutrition can show up quickly with results.
I can only speak for myself, but from what this sounds like, I’m very excited about any positive findings the group has, and am hungry for anything helpful (pun intended
) That being said, I totally agree that anything absolutely concrete and long-term would need to be thoroughly tested, and I’m sure that takes time.
I feel like there can be tested results and findings that could make a really big positive impact in people’s lives a lot sooner than people might think, but I’m not an expert in this area. I hope so though, because I know for me personally, if this group even had a recommendation or two that might make a positive impact, I’d be willing to try it in my life just to see the changes it might make for me.
Thanks!
Paul
Cortney — October 3rd, 2012, 5:26 pm
Thanks Paul, I agree that many things can be seen in a year–I was thinking about long term diseases as per the findings of The China Study, etc…you might not develop cancer in a year of eating McDonalds, (or an immunity to antibiotics after eating heavily dosed chicken, etc) but would you in 20 years? that kind of thing… I am very excited about this project and STOKED that someone like Tim is involved. Watching developments closely!
Dave Asprey — September 12th, 2012, 10:25 pm
I’d love to be involved with this and to offer the knowledge and resources of the nonprofit Silicon Valley Health Institute (svhi.com)!
Deepak — December 15th, 2012, 6:10 am
Dave you and Tim Ferris are just Amazing and I have improved my health so much by using both your methods I hope your resources are added to this project.
NK — September 12th, 2012, 10:25 pm
You are incredible. I love to learn and watch what you participate in. Thanks for sharing.
Franklyn — September 12th, 2012, 10:27 pm
As a health and exercise science major, this greatly interests me.
Scott — September 12th, 2012, 10:29 pm
Awesome! Thank you.
John — September 12th, 2012, 10:34 pm
I can’t believe this has never been done before….but at the same time I can see why the big companies have maybe kept it from happening. This is going to be huge! Obesity is a big problem in our country. This is inspiring to hear they’re tackling it and other related health problems from the food we eat.
Skippygirl — September 12th, 2012, 10:41 pm
Thank you Tim and all the founding directors and staff of NUSI. I am so exhausted from trying to hack my body by reading endless books and articles, trying to piece together what seems to be contradictory “science” and hundreds of items of information, just to try and be lean and healthy.
The day some concrete reliable evidence starts to emerge from NuSI will be a great day.
toddickens — September 12th, 2012, 10:42 pm
Tim, and those involved, thanks for fighting the good fight.
Erin — September 12th, 2012, 10:45 pm
Hi Tim,
Would love to see this group research more the effects of Green Tea consumption in particular Zen Green Tea Matcha on cancer prevention, weight loss etc. This type of Matcha green tea is gaining more and more clinical trials for its overall health properties!
darius — September 12th, 2012, 10:52 pm
oh i hope the first thing they say is that fructose = insulin resistance….
Mark — September 12th, 2012, 11:18 pm
Is there a public commitment to share the results of all trials, regardless of the outcome? I ask this because one of the most troubling trends in clinical trials is to publish those that fit a given narrative and bury the rest.
Tony S — September 20th, 2012, 11:26 am
A well-informed request. Clinical trials are no better than what they say about statistics (lies, damned lies, and ..). One tip: if a placebo is used, state what it is!
Joanna — September 13th, 2012, 12:40 am
I didn’t see a list of disclosures. Will one be forthcoming?
Dan — September 13th, 2012, 12:48 am
Nothing else to say but thankyou.
Gabor — September 13th, 2012, 1:05 am
The initiative is awesome. Only one gotcha for me though. There’s a promise about “the world’s best…”, yet, a couple of lines later: “the best scientists from all corners of the country” (being United States), which is fine…
Why exclude scientists from near-200 countries? It really doesn’t feel like a “world initiative” like this…
Scott — September 13th, 2012, 2:03 am
This is great. Hopefully when the results come back they will be given the attention and respect that is deserved, the world will need to see it.
Pamela — September 13th, 2012, 4:10 am
Way to go Tim! This is both great news and such an inspiration to get involved in things that really matter! Keep us posted
Q-San — September 13th, 2012, 4:16 am
Hopefully you guys are benchmarking the Japanese diet…It’s amazing here to see all of my students go to Japan and gain 40lbs and then come back to the Japanese diet to return to normal.
Rob — September 13th, 2012, 4:20 am
Good luck to everyone involved in the project.
What is the plan to go against the government with any new findings though? Governments are slow reacting as mentioned. I guess your internet marketing expertise will help here, but it’s still got to change the entire system no matter what is found.
Cutting down on sugar and corn is the obvious thing that can be done on a individual level, but on a mass production level to feed an entire country? It’s there for economic reasons, and the world is in bad shape economically so people who are not rich will continue to have the cheap corn/sugar meals which are causing the problems. As prices rise for everything, more people will turn to this diet too.
Michelle — September 13th, 2012, 4:45 am
I am so excited to hear more from this organization. It is about time somebody tested nutrition theories.
Nathan Schmitt — September 13th, 2012, 5:00 am
I hope Robb Wolf and Mat Lalonde are involved?
Justin — September 13th, 2012, 11:54 am
Looks like Robb is
http://robbwolf.com/2012/09/13/nusi-the-nutritional-science-initiave/
Bix — September 13th, 2012, 5:07 am
Rob makes a good point. Economics plays a role in food choice. The poor experience higher rates of obesity.
Stacy — September 13th, 2012, 5:20 am
This is awesome and necessary. Will there be a facebook page we can follow?
Greg — September 13th, 2012, 5:31 am
Fantastic initiative!
I have been following an “overlap diet” of Schwarzbein, Paleo and 4HB for a while now (not always that strictly I must admit).
I recently had a Cardiovascular Health Risk Assessment done at a local surgery . I turn 42 in a fortnight and eat quite some eggs (over 20/week), too many nuts (sorry Tim), etc but avoid white carbs, sugars, and so on. Many people (family, colleagues) were telling me that this surely was bad for my cholesterol and health in general.
The test results showed a 1% risk of cardiovascular disease and only because 0% is not an option… the GP said “keep eating what you eat!”
Oh, and I only do sports once a week (if that) but my heart rate at rest was 45bpm… the GP associated this with people who do loads of sports, I just thought it was because I wasn’t allowed coffee before the blood tests
Looking forwards to the first scientific conclusions of the NuSi and thanking the initiators!
Jason Nunnelley — September 17th, 2012, 2:48 pm
I ran a personal experiment where I ate 12 (whole) eggs + 1/4 pound of butter every day for 90 days. The result was a much healthier cholesterol balance. Turns out dietary cholesterol (from natural sources) and serum cholesterol don’t have the relationship most doctors claim.
My doctor, a student of metabolic syndrome, says anyone who’s studied obesity related disease in the past 20 years already knew the outcome would be better.
Test assumptions. Look for facts. Ignore “experts” who don’t prove positive results. Low fat, high carb diets don’t serve people with diabetes and hyperlipidemia well, unless they slice their caloric intake to miserable starvation levels. Chances are, a paleo / slow carb diet is perfect.
PS: check out grass fed butter. This seemed to help me.
Ed Love — September 18th, 2012, 1:46 am
Yep, Weston Price had this covered a century ago. Shame his work isn’t more widely known … yet
Bix — September 13th, 2012, 5:32 am
The second slide show says, “the time has come to test [the alternative hypothesis] rigorously,” and “to set aside conventional wisdom.” The alternative hypothesis is defined here as distinct from conventional wisdom, which is defined in part on slide 6 as “eat[ing] too many calories relative to how many calories [are expended].”
So, this project will not be testing whether eating less has an impact on obesity? Or the relationship between energy intake and energy expenditure?
Stacy — September 13th, 2012, 5:55 am
I’d also like to say that I’d love to see data on whether drinking milk is harmful, hurtful, or neither. Without being tainted by special interest groups.
Benjamin — September 13th, 2012, 6:13 am
How is this going to be different than the American Society for Nutrition? Will you be publishing in serious peer-reviewed journals like American Journal of Clinical Nutrition?
Shawna — September 13th, 2012, 6:27 am
AWESOME!!
Huge fan of your work and thrilled to see our world impacted!
Would love to speak with you about why, medically, the 4HB did not work for me and the possibility of using me as a human guinea pig to be able to help millions of people like me, eating a slow carb clean diet with exercise and unable to lose weight. Happy to e-mail my labs over which paint a clear picture of a long term healthy lifestyle but body not responding properly. Now that I know the why, details on next steps and how are very limited. Let’s write a book that speaks to the how to be healthy in this condition!!
Rolf — September 13th, 2012, 6:28 am
This is so necessary. Unbelievable that something like this only now emerges. This has my full support!
My suggestion, don’t stick to USA only. This is a worldwide problem that needs to be tackled on a worldwide scale. So bring in those scientists from all over the globe and make sure you get UN recognition and support for this.
morgan — September 14th, 2012, 9:08 pm
Should definitely be a global effort to be taken seriously on a global scale. America doesn’t exactly have a great reputation when it comes to, well anything. Our only superiority is our military in 2012. The International community is already laughing at this if its not an international effort. Must be a misunderstanding here…
also I agree with Shane earlier:
From the sounds of it this is looking pretty much exclusively into obesity and solving the health problems that it results in. Will the scope widen?
I would add to that by asking, will this study explore the vast array of international breakthroughs in nutrition from cod liver oil, to mushrooms, to MSM and gold? How deep are they going to get for those of us who are more advanced already? or is this all about the average American diet and those who are obese and eating frozen vegetables from a microwave? (on a good day)
morgan — September 14th, 2012, 9:24 pm
wild salmon vs farmed. GMO vs non-gmo. grass fed vs corn fed. processed vs unprocessed. are these subjects off limits to an all-American project like this? How about one indigenous witch doctor for each degreed physician hired. One aborigine, one bushman, one cheyenne, one sioux, one cherokee. Or it that getting too wild…
Sounds very grandiose and exciting.
I might want to get involved if its an International undertaking with funding from neutral sources and if they will consider those of us without college degrees for employment.
Ed Love — September 14th, 2012, 10:14 pm
I would have thought those four issues would be self evident. The trouble with food these days is that for the masses, it’s about profit instead of nutrition.
There is much wisdom we could learn/remember from so called primitive cultures.
Hey, at least the bad stuff isn’t compulsory
David Bird — September 13th, 2012, 6:30 am
This is absolutely brilliant news!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m really happy. Something very positive to come from this.
If I have any spare cash this will be the non-profit of choice to me.
Aaron McMahon — September 13th, 2012, 6:38 am
Mr. Ferris,
This is a great idea. I think the fact that you can find brave people who care more about finding truths than making people billions or going after tenure is what this country needs more of.
I would like to see you take your research for research sake to NASA. Imagine the possibilities…
I hope someday to work with you on something, or learn from you personally. Keep going man, you are truly an inspiration for the untainted and the ambitious.
Justin M. — September 13th, 2012, 6:43 am
Awesome. I just hope they don’t underestimate the importance of the communications strategy. As Tim Ferris, Michelle Obama, and Jamie Oliver have recently found out, you sadly just can’t try to help people these days.
Whether it’ll be AstroTurf or just ideologues, NuSI can expect an onslaught of negative attacks and disinformation campaigns.
Good luck! I’m looking forward to supporting NuSI in whatever way possible!
Andrew — September 13th, 2012, 6:44 am
Too bad Joel Fuhrman (http://www.drfuhrman.com/) is not involved, as far as I can tell.
Justin — September 13th, 2012, 11:55 am
Actually keeping his biased opinion out is probably a good thing LOL
Andrew — September 13th, 2012, 1:12 pm
Can you elaborate on his bias?
Justin — September 13th, 2012, 8:19 pm
Taking a shitty epidemiology study like the Harvard Food Questionnaire study and saying that it ‘confirms’ … ‘what we already know – red meat is a disease-promoting food’ is pretty biased.
A better look at the details of said study http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-red-meat-kill-you/
http://garytaubes.com/2012/03/science-pseudoscience-nutritional-epidemiology-and-meat/
http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2012/03/red-meat-mortality-the-usual-bad-science/
Also the other study that ‘proves’ meat is bad, the China Study, is some correlations as well, and not very good ones at that.
There are many examples around the world of traditional diet that are moderate to high in meat consumption and have none of the modern day health issues we have.
If people keep trying to prove meat is the cause of all health issues then we will never be healthy as a society.
Jason — September 13th, 2012, 7:53 am
Finally, a collective and funded voice of reason.
Jason — September 13th, 2012, 7:55 am
It’s like the Superfriends of health and nutrition. Excited to see what comes of it.
Geoff — September 13th, 2012, 8:09 am
Why am I not the least bit surprised you’re involved with this thing, Tim?
Good luck with NuSI. I’ll be watching closely.
Chase Miller — September 13th, 2012, 8:12 am
This is amazing….and so needed!!
Matt — September 13th, 2012, 8:12 am
Sounds great! Make sure to update us with future posts when the institute makes discoveries. Any chance they can look into the health of vaccines as well?
Simon — September 13th, 2012, 8:13 am
Tim,
Countless scientists, including Dr. Mark Haub have already found the solution.
EAT LESS. Dr. Haub ate only food from vending machines for something like 8-10 weeks and lost approx. 40lbs. All of his health indicators ( blood pressure, cholesterol, etc) improved significantly. Because he ate under his calorie needs for the day and therefore lost weight.
Sugar is not the enemy or Corn Syrup or whatever other food is being vilified by Men’s health and by other fitness marketers. North America is a culture of overeaters that are continuous sold superfoods, silly overexercise routines, told to never skip meals (even if theyre not hungry) and solutions that are simply made up to sell a product.
Eat Less. Move More.
It doesn’t have to be more complicated than that… unless you are a fitness marketer trying to sell a product, or a book.
I just hope this initiative actually does some good.
lupo — September 13th, 2012, 11:40 am
“Eat less”? How, exactly? If I don’t eat, I get hungry. Hunger is a psychological epiphenomenon of the physiological need for energy from foodstuff. This happens in spite of excess adipose tissue, and it is important to find out why the body in that case doesn’t regulate itself any longer and develops so many of “Western” diseases. The influence of nutrient composition itself needs to be examined, and there are so many candidates: refined carbohydrates, trans-fats, semi-dwarf wheat, mycotoxins, vitamin deficiencies – you name it.
Brolo — September 14th, 2012, 8:22 am
The body is an incredibly efficient machine and eventually will catch up to a calorie deficient and slow it’s metabolism down. It’s also important to what kind of weight we are losing. Most people want to lose fat and gain muscle which makes a diet off calories alone worthless. Lastly calories have a different function when broken down by the body. Simple example is vodka that when taken with carbs has a positive caloric value, however a couple shots of vodka without the presence carbs has an actual negative caloric value. Hopefully all bro science, including your theory, will be squashed and put into light by this new study.
Matt Beswick — February 5th, 2013, 9:32 am
Definitely need much more data on calorie restriction. One thing about calorie restriction though is it requires will power. Even more will power if your insulin is up and down. So this is a question of adherence. Calorie restriction may work but what percentage of people are able to implement it, whilst living in their current socio economic environments. Check out Robert Lustig’s youtube videos. It’s also interesting to note that some low carber’s report appetite reduction which is inline with the eat less hypo.
Tricia — September 13th, 2012, 8:16 am
This is amazingly great news to hear. And so very important. I will continue to follow it’s work. Please work quickly. . .we need BIG changes SOON.
Sarah — September 13th, 2012, 8:19 am
This is so good, so overdue! Looking forward to the results & data
howard — September 13th, 2012, 8:46 am
Thanx for sharing.
michael — September 13th, 2012, 8:48 am
Amen and Hallelujah!! May this spark an enlightened wakening for our larger scientific and medical community!
Andre Leopold — September 13th, 2012, 8:50 am
Dear Tim, really appriciate your new project.
I just completely changed my diet, although I have not been fat. I am constantly doing triathlons and different other sports and now I am eating only fruits, vegetables, nuts etc. so no bread, no pasta, no rice.
Surprisingly, i have not been loosing any of my power. If you are interested in the results of that self-experiment, let me know.
Melvin — September 13th, 2012, 8:51 am
Things like give me hope! I love seeing things like this in my news feed.
Tanuja — September 13th, 2012, 8:51 am
As someone who went to the Institute of Integrative Nutrition and a consumer and someone who cares about the quality of her food and government’s role in the quality of her food – I deeply appreciate that this project is underway. Good luck Tim – looking forward to some concrete scientific results we can throw in people’s faces!
Mike Graf — September 13th, 2012, 8:54 am
The problem with “Hard science” in nutrition is that all life (human bodies and food) are inherently variable. There is a vast difference between 2 of the same foods. Joel Salatin of Polyface farms claims that the USDA listed nutrition specs for beef fall way below the nutrition profiles of his beef (USDA has about 1/3 or so) . To truly have a cause and effect testing your scientists will have to control 100s, maybe even 1000s of variables … Good luck.
btw: Good sleep, tonnes of cardio (tri training for ironman) and high vegetable diet (leafy greens, not potatoes) is the only time I’ve lost significant weight (200lbs to 175lbs, 25lbs from peak) … I would suggest that anyone who gives a crap about their health can do this.
Mike — September 14th, 2012, 1:21 pm
So all life is inherently variable and yet you suggest that everyone do what worked for you? I find that interesting.
Matt Beswick — February 5th, 2013, 9:49 am
It is the role of “hard science” to address this variability. Your point is valid. However, The answers to specific well defined questions maybe very simple.
This is what interest me about this project there is some precision in the approach as in Tim’s book. Hard science is about being as rigorous as you can be and then being even more rigorous. Then the general public will see that as beyond reasonable doubt. Real Science is hard. Very hard.
Ursula — September 13th, 2012, 8:57 am
This is great news – bring it on the REAL UNBIASED info, the world thanks you in advance.
Kristi Centinaro — September 13th, 2012, 9:13 am
Finally! Thanks for sharing, and your involvement in something so vital. I’ll be watching this with great interest!
Chris Odell — September 13th, 2012, 9:23 am
I like it, very cool.
Thomas Yap — September 13th, 2012, 9:53 am
I hope the initiative can look into different genetic factors as well. While there may be general diet guidelines, I have a gut feeling one man’s diet is another’s highway to illness. For example, Asians might digest rice better, and Europeans digest dairy products better. (Just an example, since some say skip rice & dairy entirely). And not only which foods we should eat,, but also which foods are more EFFICIENT to produce, in this world of declining land space & environmental overload.
Micky H Corbett — September 13th, 2012, 9:58 am
Sounds like a good idea. Good luck with that.
Are you also going to look at when people eat? Meals per day may be an interesting factor. Another may be the effect of changing eating habits or environment.
Eating habits and environment often feature in food cravings research.
Cynthia — September 13th, 2012, 10:02 am
I hope you’ll at least consider including something along the lines of Eat Right for your Blood Type (or other diets that acknowledge that we’re not all the same person) in your research — because I think any system that tries to come up with one answer for everyone is already doomed, at least for that part of the population that doesn’t fit the mold. Differences DO matter — we do not all run on the same fuel or at the same speed.
My life was transformed by the blood-type diet, and I could introduce you to dozens of people I know who have had similar dramatic results.
I hope your project does splendidly, because nutrition is definitely a key to better health, greater productivity, longer life — but it’s not going to be exactly the same for everyone, and I hope you also take that into consideration.
Rob — September 13th, 2012, 10:02 am
Finally.
I cannot wait to see the fruits of this.
Is Robb Wolf involved?
Best,
Rob
Justin — September 13th, 2012, 11:56 am
http://robbwolf.com/2012/09/13/nusi-the-nutritional-science-initiave/
Eric — September 13th, 2012, 10:42 am
This is a dream of mine, too, Tim.
I wish you guys all the best and will be following your research closely.
It’s about time that truly objective science started coming out…
Daniel Kislyukhea — September 13th, 2012, 10:55 am
Awesome! That’s one great initiative. My strong belief, though, is that we should work towards better contact between mind and body. If we felt what’s good for our bodies and what’s bad, the problems with obesity would have never arisen. Indigenous people, those that still live in the wild, and are in better contact with themselves are rarely obese or in bad shape.Anyway, looking forward to reading something in Nature or Science coming from this project.
On an unrelated note. Tim, for quite a while already I’m trying to claim the round-trip, won in X-mas countdown competition. would be great to hear from Amy. Now I really need this ticket =)
Andy — September 13th, 2012, 11:12 am
Way to kill it with science! I love the way the world is going informationally and scientifically!
Andrea — September 13th, 2012, 11:18 am
What great news! I feel already impatient to learn NuSi’s discoveries! Until then, I am following 4HB Diet
Kevin Phillips — September 13th, 2012, 11:37 am
I will most defiantly be fallowing the progress of this project. This could shake things up and the results might be worth billions!
Kevin Phillips — September 13th, 2012, 11:39 am
Hay Tim, I owe you a drink! Catch you next spring.
KP
Justin — September 13th, 2012, 11:57 am
I wonder if Gary will let Stephan Guyenet or any people that disagree with the insulin theory be involved.
b-nasty — September 13th, 2012, 12:44 pm
Stephen is involved to some limited degree. He already commented that while he may have had his disagreements with Taubes, the organization looks good (has voices that will seek the truth).
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2012/09/nutrition-science-initiative-nusi.html
Justin — September 13th, 2012, 8:08 pm
Guess I could have just googled that … thanks
Arman Assadi — September 13th, 2012, 12:02 pm
This is big news—glad you’re involved, Tim.
It takes 15 years for a new drug to hit the market. I’m sure the NuSI team can bring some definitive answers in a shorter time period. =)
Stuart — September 13th, 2012, 12:35 pm
I hope you guys can produce some good quality information. However, the obesity epidemic is less nutrition based and more psychosocial, in my opinion. The information needed to maintain a healthy bodyweight is pretty low:
avoid overly processed foods and trans fats
limit fructose, omega-6 FA, and soy intake
if you’re gaining weight, eat less
Pretty simple stuff, but making these decisions everyday seems tough for certain groups of people. Hence the psychosocial side to the problem -> more about changing our perspective on food
Dan — September 13th, 2012, 12:43 pm
Thanks for sharing Tim. This is huge and as a personal trainer with my wife we are both really interested to see what they produce.
The only thing that strikes me is the fact that in a “controlled” experiment, you still have to isolate variables and then draw a conclusion.
In the “real world” you never have isolated variables. That is one reason why Four Hour Body was awesome. You ran tests on yourself and others and based very educated hypotheses on what you saw.
I still think real world experience is always better.
I just hope they publish their data better than PubMed… that site is horrible to get through.
Meghan — September 13th, 2012, 1:28 pm
Hi Tim,
This project sounds fantastic, and I’m thrilled about it!
I don’t know if you have any say in adding anyone else to this group, but what about Dr. Mercola with the #1 online natural health newsletter in the world? Or David Wolfe, author of several books on nutrition and a nutritionist who is on the absolute cutting edge of this science? I think both of them would be outstanding additions. Also, be SO careful about backdoor corruption… universities are NOTORIOUS for being influenced/bribed by corporate interests!! I know it’s hard not to include them when you are relying completely on science, academia, etc. for your information, but I’d just as soon leave those guys out. Thanks, as always, for sharing!
Faith West — September 13th, 2012, 2:05 pm
I think the Manhattan Project is a fantastic project.
I find it an extreme oversight that you have not invited Dr. Myron Wentz, founder of USANA Health Sciences, to be a part of this project. Dr. Wentz has been on the cutting edge of scientifically formulated nutritional health products for over 20 years. Dr. Wentz has been awarded the Albert Einstein Ward for his outstanding contribution to the field of nutritional science. He works closely with the Linus Pauling Institute in continuing cutting edge research. His vision to promote health encompasses the global family. Please get in touch with Dr. Wentz. You really cannot afford not to.
Best Regards,
Faith West
AA — September 13th, 2012, 2:19 pm
What is the time frame for this? When will we know the outcome? Months? Years?
Joe — September 13th, 2012, 2:59 pm
At least they don’t have to spend time and resources studying the effects of the fried, sugary, fast-food diet mixed with the Cheetoes and remote control workout regimen.
That diet’s been tested for the last 50 years.
JD Mumma — September 13th, 2012, 3:15 pm
Tim,
I applaud your fortitude and constant thoughts and actions to make our world a better place for all!
If you are not already proficiency at identifying, exposing and protecting against at least the basic logical fallacies then I strongly recommend you increase your understanding – here is a great infographic to hack this topic http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies – as well as understanding the defining elements and precise methodologies that would qualify as “highest scientific standards” (the undefined term used by Peter Attia, M.D.)
SUMMARY of MY REVIEW of NuSI:
Great mission, yet their ’cause of obesity’ premise is both blatantly myopic, fallacious and biases, and now they need lots of money (“funding”) to hire a bunch of supposedly unbiased and independent scientists (apparently have either never done good science themselves or are just waiting to do good science with NuSI – based on Peter Attia, M.D statements in the videos that there is not yet good science) to finally confirm their bias. The answers to the questions presented on the NuSI do NOT qualify as “highest standards” science, yet it is a great advertising/marketing presentation!
Peter Attia, M.D. Q & A videos http://nusi.org/about-us/why-nusi/#.UFJGt41lSTY
“To many calories, type of calories – which hypothesis is right”
“Improving quality of research.”
The presentation by is basically saying ‘Everyone else is wrong and inadequate (“never been reliable answered” “none of the studies can identify the causal results between diet and health”) yet we and only we are gonna be the ones who finally make all good and inerrant science.’
1) “Q2: What is NuSI seeking to accomplish and what do you need to get there?” NUSI seeks to “Fund rigorous, well controlled experiments conducted by independent researchers with a proven track record of doing excellent science. These experiments will unambiguously clarify the relationship between dietary nutrients, weight control, and chronic disease.”
R: Where is the proven track record?
2) “Q3: What are the leverage points that will make NuSI successful?”
“The fundamental question about the nature of a health diet have NEVER been reliably answered, despite widespread preconceptions to the contrary.”
R: NEVER is a pretty bold statement that can EASILY be dis-proven.
3) “Q5: What are the metrics of successs for NuSI? “Meet the highest standards”
R: The actual scientific methodologies termed by Peter Attia, M.D. as “highest scientific standards” that NUSI are misteriously missing
It is obvious to me the already pre-existing non-scientific biases and lack of full wholistic approach.
The underlying argument is blatantly fallacious, a myopic scientific premise and BIASED as an either or (false dichotomy) fallacious theory that obesity is
EITHER “to many calories”
OR a “hormonal defect a growth disorder triggered by the refined grains, starches and sugars in our diet”
Completely leaving out exercise expenditure, stress (lack of adequate rest, mental, environmental…) hormone/chemical, timing of caloric intake…
Presumption that ALL existing science on this topic are below standard and inadequate.
Compos Mentis and Caveat Qui Credit!
Matt Beswick — February 5th, 2013, 10:13 am
Excellent post JD. Lets simplify.
1) What is the definition of Obesity?
2) What is the definition of Metabolic Syndrome?
And what are the associated metrics for both?
JD Mumma — February 5th, 2013, 10:45 pm
Thanks Matt!
Are you asking those question to me or to Tim or the responders?
My BIG question is has Tim enough science sense to discern the valid conclusions from the fallacies and cherry picked “science” presented by NuSI?
Matt Beswick — February 6th, 2013, 5:04 am
Question was to you. I can’t speak for Tim. I think some of your questions are valid. I would put your questions directly to Dr Attia or any of the scientists on board. Would be very interested in the response.
TW — September 13th, 2012, 3:29 pm
Tim,
I am thankful to you and the rest of the NuSI team. This is fantastic on so many levels. Good health starts with wise decisions, which are backed by education – something we don’t have enough of globally. I believe ultimately that we will learn that most disease can be prevented through proper diet. I am far from a health nut, by the way. I don’t have to be to realize other societies and their nutritional habits reveal patterns differing from ours in the U.S.
The time is right – people are ready for the truth and they are tired of being sold something at every turn; Their trust is challenged constantly and they are confused by conflicting messages. It is refreshing to witness the birth of a not-for-profit dedicated to unlocking the facts we all need concerning our nutrition. Society and humanity will be as thankful as I am some day.
Brett — September 13th, 2012, 3:40 pm
On behalf of the world, thank you. Now, if only someone would do this with education and convert Wikipedia into a free university.
Marc — September 13th, 2012, 5:33 pm
Great initiative, but there is big money (corporations) involved that will squash this if it hits their bottom line. Sorry to by a cynic, but this needs to stay fringe before the PR companies throw all sorts of stuff on mainstream media to dispel any arguments otherwise and make it worse. If everyone eats healthy, A LOT of companies will lose A LOT of money.
Stewart Hart — September 13th, 2012, 7:44 pm
I have been doing the SCD for a year and half now. I dont want the NuSI to back up my decision to follow the SCD, but to conduct pure science without any preconceived notions where ever that might lead.
Rochelle — September 13th, 2012, 8:00 pm
I’m skeptical in all things diet related. Although this sounds like an interesting project, the Human Microbiome Project will likely yield more and better evidence of what really makes each person who (s)he is.
We each need to figure out for ourselves what works best. There will be no “one size fits all” nutrition plan. Seven billion people, seven billion ways of eating right and exercising.
Trish — September 13th, 2012, 8:50 pm
Really looking forward to keeping on this project, Thanks Tim for your involvement in something so worthy and so timely!!!
Peter Attia — September 13th, 2012, 10:13 pm
Tim and readers,
I am both humbled and energized by the amount of amazing feedback and support in this feed. As I sit reading your comments, I am reminded of why we must press on toward NuSI’s paramount mission. Thank you.
As Tim clarified, NuSI is not about Peter or Gary, representing the interest of any private or public establishment, or “low-carb,” or “Paleo,” or any combination of egocentric maneuvering to prove a pet theory. It’s about getting the science done in a manner that leads to an unambiguous set of guidelines so everyone out there can eventually make the most informed choice about what they eat.
What NuSI is about is people. And we are committed to getting this right. I will never lose sight of this. Over 200 million Americans are afflicted with a condition that reduces their quality of life, and the solution is within reach. Let’s be sure our children in 20 years don’t have to do what we are doing.
Of course, we aren’t perfect, and I’m sure we will face challenges along the way, which is why your support and feedback is crucial. Keep it coming. This is for you.
Peter Attia
TW — September 13th, 2012, 11:15 pm
Great message, Peter. Thank you for doing what it takes and facing the many challenges that lie ahead and having the guts to take the risk and the heat that comes along with the coolness of stepping out and making a difference. I have a very intimate understanding of how hard that can be, as many others do.
Perhaps you already know this and put it into practice, but I’ll say it anyway. Anyone that does anything for others should consider something vital to the success of working on projects of higher purpose. Find a selfish reason to do it along with the obvious unselfish reasons. Don’t reveal it to anyone, but know that there is something that helps you find balance in the challenges ahead. With both a personally selfish and a non-selfish reason for doing this, you and the rest of the team can deal with anything that comes your way… anything.
People that may never know your names and what you have done will have an opportunity to get something immeasurably important to their lives and the lives of their children as a result of the work that can be accomplished here. Please let us know if you need any support or help.
Justin — September 14th, 2012, 9:45 am
Peter,
While I do commend you for this and think there will be many benefits, I think that this is barking up the wrong tree.
The problem with health and nutrition in North America and other developed countries around the world is not the science, it is the politics and the other issues that capitalism brings.
People are selfish and can only think short term. It is not hard to find out how to be healthy or how to lose weight, most people just don’t care enough to do anything about it. And large corporations spend tons of money convincing people that their product is good for them.
Can the NuSi help over come the marketing and misinformation that large food manufactures are spreading? And the political ties to food manufactures and the policies that allow them to make money off of sick people?
If it can then we will have a solution.
Aleksey — September 14th, 2012, 12:20 am
I hope you’ll forgive me, I’d be happy to get excited about his, but I’m a little confused by that president video.
1. Too gimmicky. “Real scientists” looking at big molecule mockups and pouring colored liquids in tubes back and forth. Really?
2. Research has been going for decades all across the area of nutrition. Yes, it’s often contradictory, and there are dozens of . But it’s a pretty strong claim to say “oh, nobody knows jack and we are actually going to do things right”
3. “People are trying so hard to listen to what they are told and it’s making them fatter. ” Thanks for the wake up call, now why should people listen to the new kid on the block?
4. Are people listening? Hell no, I don’t know anyone who controls their pizza/beer/ice cream/burger binges and exercises AND is still fat. Others, however, keep complain while still eating that desert. Sure, no one has precise answers, but stay away from the damn table, get off your ass and voila — not obese.
This honestly looks like a late night infomercial.
Dr Bernard Robertson-Dunn — September 14th, 2012, 12:37 am
Tim,
I have made a study of problem solving and IMHO the first thing to get right is a good definition of the problem.
The first thing is not to confuse symptoms with problems. Symptoms are situations or statements. Problems are questions.
You have described a lot of symptoms and stated many facts but what you have not explicitly stated is the problem you are trying to solve.
As slide 26 in the second slide set indicates, the scientific method is all about asking a question. If you are going to use the scientific method, get the question right.
Some questions you might be trying to answer are:
Is obesity an indicator of bad health?
Will reducing the level of obesity in the general population result in improved health indicators? An associated question is “What are the indicators of good health?”
If you are going to pursue obesity, some questions might be: What are the causes of obesity? Is the only cause diet? Is one of the causes diet? Is the cause nothing to do with diet? If one of the causes is diet what is the interaction with the other causes?
I can think of many questions associated with the symptom that is obesity. My suggestion is that you spend a lot of time thinking about the real problem you are trying to solve and making sure that solving it will address a root cause, not a symptom.
A few words of warning. This will be harder than you think. Obesity is a wicked problem (look it up).
Ed Love — September 14th, 2012, 12:40 am
How fascinating … for the 1% of us who are actually interested in this stuff. However, I really don’t see this making any difference in the obesity problem.
Why not? For starters, Weston A Price has most of the answers we need. If it’s been good enough for a million years of human evolution, it’s probably still good enough for us today.
Secondly: knowing about good nutrition is one thing, telling everyone else is another. Money talks. Profits rule over nutrition. How are we going to change that?
e.g. two of the biggest sponsors of the Olympics were Coke and McDonalds. What else do you need to know? Oh, yes, and GMO frankenfoods, irradiated foods, pasteurised dairy, etc.
Until we can clean up that problem, learning more about nutrition is totally irrelevant.
And another thing: most people eat far worse than their nutritional knowledge. So we need to fix that problem, too.
Plenty to be getting on with
Jscott — September 14th, 2012, 7:41 pm
Cynic gonna cyn!
To many diet books that fly off the shelf to only sell to 1%.
Movements tend to merge together to create change. Different groups hold a puzzle piece and eventually put them together. That or they die.
Weston Price has great info. I dig much of it.
They also suck at marketing/promotion.
Plus, have you ever tried making half that stuff? (I Do but know many of my peers are not gonna cut up 5 heads of cabbage and ferment them.)
So, maybe add your life coaching to the Olympians to change that side of the puzzle and encourage others to do the same where they have influence?
Ed Love — September 14th, 2012, 10:05 pm
I’m actually a massive optimist, but as my time & resources are limited, I check probabilities before selecting what battles to fight.
Yeah, WaP could do better with marketing. Unf, it usually comes down to money buying media time
I also can’t be bothered with that time consuming stuff, but do enjoy simple quick things like yoghurt, kefir, organ meats, etc, …
Maybe the best we can do is be a great example of what works? Then others might ask, because we didn’t put them off trying to ram our opinions down their throats
Rauno Ylismäki — September 14th, 2012, 2:59 am
AWESOME!! Great work! Can not wait to hear more of everything…..
Best regards,
Rauno
Paleo-Caveman from Helsinki – Finland
MikeL — September 14th, 2012, 5:44 am
Ok, here’s a thought experiment for everyone to perform. What happens if NuSI sponsors 10 nutrition experiments and 9 show that, say, the paleo diet is the most efficient way to lose weight and just the 1 study shows that an all-carb diet is best? Assume all else is equal in these experiments. Now what? Or what if the breakdown is 6 and 4 in favor of paleo? What has NuSI accomplished that the years and years of previous study have not? Or to put it differently, how has NuSI reduced the total volume of confusion over diet and health?
Susan Holland — September 14th, 2012, 7:49 am
Mikel, suppose that the scenario includes follow ups with the study subjects and finds that amazing results over and above weight-loss are significant… so that even if the non-Paleo weight-losers are slimmer, they are still ill?
People are losing life-long symptoms of illness on this diet! That might be a significant finding that would lessen the confusion over diet and health.
MikeL — September 14th, 2012, 10:48 am
Susan, you’re missing the point. Pick whatever metric of effects that you find convenient and test the two diet-treatment groups (or whatever, this is hypothetical). 6 times paleo wins and 4 times carbs win. Or worse, it’s 5 and 5. The truth is that the scientific method can never explain way the minority result. It exists and must be accounted for on its own merits. Science is not democracy (thank goodness) where majority result (or opinion) rules the day.
So I repeat my concern: how is a bunch of new studies by NuSI going to resolve the inevitable problem of opposing and conflicting results? Under the current scientific paradigm I do not think that it can. There is only going to be more confusion.
Justin — September 14th, 2012, 11:02 am
@MikeL I agree, there are far too many variables that can not be collected or determined.
Justin — September 14th, 2012, 11:03 am
@MikeL
Also paleo != low carb
Paleo is macronutrient agnostic
David — September 14th, 2012, 8:17 am
I loved your 4HB book, and I hope and pray that this company can truly deliver what it is promising.
Unfortunately I’ve become way too skeptical to believe much of any type of reports from institution or Government Agency.
Please let this work for you….our kids deserve better.
Andy — September 14th, 2012, 9:43 am
Awesome, can’t wait to hear the results
Joe — September 14th, 2012, 12:04 pm
I’m writing a grant for a food pantry right now, and I just got an email from the nutritionist that assists & educates immigrant families. It made me realize how out of touch they are with what really matters. They educate at a very remedial level, and it is straight food chart off the cereal box. They are so focused on skim milk, whole wheat bread, and an apple a day. I guess that is better than Apple Jacks, cheetos and Pepsi, but I hope they read about NuSi. NuSi has its work cut out for them because there are thousands of nutritionists out there who are set in their ways and well intentioned. Sick and poor people just believe them. The Mexicans at this food pantry would be much better off if they just ate beans, rice, tortillas, chiles, veggies, meat, etc.
Brandon — September 14th, 2012, 12:07 pm
Bravo, Tim. Our country needs more independent, non-special-interest driven research done to clearly provide the truth about food an nutrition – separate from any monetary interest. I applaud this group and project.
Moe — September 14th, 2012, 7:01 pm
Very interesting project. It definitely seems like in the nutrition and fitness industry, its pioneering independent studies like this are what make the real progress
William Reid — September 14th, 2012, 9:45 pm
You guys got Taleb on board with this?!! That practically makes my knees buckle. He’s got the B.S. Filter to end them all. I know of and have respect for many folks involved in this project, but none more so than Mr. N. N. Taleb. This must be real. I look forward to learning more and participating.
Ed Love — September 14th, 2012, 10:10 pm
Yeah, Taleb is a top buy. Fooled is a must read, especially these days when narrow minded quants rule the world.
Ben — September 15th, 2012, 5:36 am
Um, has anyone read The China Study? Published in 2006, the most comprehensive study on nutrition ever conducted. All the questions posed in the slide are answered and it seems like some quotes are taken verbatim from the book.
The first slide quote McGovern was mention in the book. He was the first senator who recommends increase fruit and vegetables vs. animal protein. He was supported with 6 senators. Unfortunately they represented agriculture states and all lost their reelection campaign.
On slide 9 of 16 it states no definitive answers. How about whole foods, plant-based diet vs “western” diet of animal protein. Look into diseases of “affluence”. The goals of this group have already been completed. Bill Clinton changed his diet after reading his book. No tests? 1970, the premier of China, Chou EnLai, dying of cancer initiated a nationwide survey to collect data for this report. The book extremely well written, documented, investigates food industries, Big Pharma, Big Medicine, Doctors motivations, ego, and incentives (why recommend a diet change to solve heart disease if heart surgery accounts for over 70% of revenues at the best heart clinic in USA, Cleveland Clinic?), and government reports which are bought and sold by all the above to keep the public confused.
I love Tim. He has changed my life and for the much, much better. But I do not see how with the scientific data already put forth in The China Study he can recommend any animal-protein diet (Slow Carb or Paleo) in good conscious. Hopefully this will group will lead him to this conclusion. Unfortunately the data is already available. I am still in support of this group and know Tim has the right intentions but argued before by Plato dialogue between Socrates and Glaucon in which they discuss the future of their cities (Socrates concludes “in this luxurious (affluence) city of sickness and disease, won’t lawyers and doctors become the norm?), and Seneca advising Nero (Ox is satisfied with the pasture, man alone supports himself by the pillage of the whole earth and sea, and George Macilwain in the 1800s, those who eat animals “anticipate death.”
And if you are wondering how I knew those references to Plato and Seneca. I didn’t. But T. Colin Campbell did and he dedicated his entire professional career to these causes. Give the man his due. Read his book.
The China Study.
Felix — September 22nd, 2012, 8:25 am
I was wondering when somebody would mention the China Study. Have read it a few month back and since switch to the proposed plant based whole food diet – works great for me.
Can’t wait to see what results Peter Attia and team will come up with. Any comments on Dr. T. Colin Campbell and his findings?
Jeremy — September 15th, 2012, 7:26 am
Tim,
Here’s the thing I would like this group to do:
Destroy the assumption that calories = weight.
This is a generalized assumption that is not true from a physical sense that I think hurts people’s approach to weight control.
In engineering school, I learned these two fundamental equations:
1. Conservation of mass: Mass(In)=Mass(Stored)+Mass(Out)
2. Conservation of energy Energy(In)=Energy(Stored)+Energy(Out)
To lose weight, you have to have a net negative Mass(Stored).
The questions should be then:
1. What foods to eat to minimize the amount of mass storage while still maintaining nutritional and caloric needs
2. What processes trigger the body to use stored mass and how to emphasize them.
We will come a long way if we can learn how these processes work.
Jeremy
Daniel Perlaky — September 15th, 2012, 10:35 am
Love it… it’s so difficult to sift through the existing material on nutrition that most people give up or pick randomly and bounce between different fads that don’t necessarily have their best interest in mind, or may just simply not be right for their particular situation.
The key with something like this initiative will be to have a shortcut or intro version that is very accessible to most people without a nutrition background (or even interest). That way they can be gently pulled into the more comprehensive content.
Simplicity is key to do the most good for the majority of people who need it the most but sound scientific proof and well-organized details for those who want them will make this an excellent resource.
Great initiative.
Cindy — September 15th, 2012, 1:21 pm
Will you consider doing a specific 4-Hour Body plan for women?
Thanks!
JJ — September 15th, 2012, 4:56 pm
Tim,
You should really get Jack Kruse involved. His research parallels yours and is excellent.
Joshua delos Reyes — September 15th, 2012, 5:52 pm
I am excited about the details and the results of this initiative. Once and for all, the fads should end so that we can save a lot of money and time on the useless.
David Alpuche — September 16th, 2012, 1:49 am
This post brought a huge smile on my face for many reasons.
First of all, it’s always exciting to read Tim’s new projects and adventures. They are not just fun and inspiring but they always seem to be about helping others and improving people’s lives. I think you know how much we appreciate you, but it’s always good to remind you of it: Thanks Tim. Keep doing good work and you know we have your back, always.
Second, and on a more personal note, I love reading how you created something I had in mind a few months ago. No, I didn’t imagine a Manhattan project about nutrition. I imagined one for stuttering.
I know many of you don’t even imagine how it’s like to be a life long severe stutterer, but in one word, it’s HORRIBLE. Imagine how your life would be if you couldn’t trust your voice to come out when you need it. Imagine how stressful your life would be if you knew that every single introduction in your life is going to be an awkward and embarrassing situation. Imagine feeling anxiety just by hearing the phone ring, because you know it will be a stressful situation, no matter if it’s just a friend calling. Imagine have all this brilliant ideas and knowledge in your head, but not being able to express them at will. Life can be hard without voice, trust me.
That’s why a few months ago I decided to gather up people in support of a joint effort to find once and for all the cause and solution to this issue.
Sadly, mi sphere of influence is nowhere near Tim’s, and support has come not as often and very far in between.
So I think it might be a good idea to just ask you, Tim, and people from this community to think about it for a minute. Would you mind checking out this blog post I created for this cause? It will take just a minute, please. Who knows, maybe one of you might be, or know the person, we need to get this thing off the ground.
Link is: http://iamsurewecan.com/post/19195390560/going-out-on-a-limb
Thanks in advance to all of you.
Susan Holland — September 17th, 2012, 9:16 am
Off topic, but a wonderful effort, David. I’ll follow your efforts. Nice web site.
My Uncle Harry was a very successful guy, though he stuttered, in Dutch and English.
Jorge — September 16th, 2012, 6:32 am
Tim,
This looks great. Two things:
The ‘Learn More’ and ‘join the team’ links do not work.
Is Nathan Myhrvold involed?
Dr Martin Russell — September 16th, 2012, 1:01 pm
Manhattan Project scale is certainly a good way to describe it.
To make it even more comprehensive you would need to include the HOW of eating, not just the WHAT.
The data in the field of “Intuitive eating” and the research covered in the book “Mindless Eating” are very relevant to obesity, but rarely addressed by nutritionists. Hope it gets included by NuSI.
RavMedia — September 16th, 2012, 3:35 pm
i can`t wait so see what 3-d book will be… hope wi`ll be a winner…
Susan Jones - Ready Set Startup — September 16th, 2012, 7:53 pm
This is awesome news Tim. So much information out there is misinformation because of the biases you mention.
If I can put in my two cents,
the role of intestinal bacteria is being increasing shown to have an important link to both nutrition and development of various diseases. I would be very interested in any independent research on this topic.
Michael Christopher — September 16th, 2012, 8:07 pm
Hey Tim!
Thanks for trying to make a difference in the world! No matter what these haters say. I’ve just recently discovered you and I think you’re the bomb! Any chance you could use your mad scientist ways to come up with a program for flexibility? I am a theatre performer, and I know it would be useful for dancers, actors, athletes, martial artists, etc. One way or the other, keep rocking!
Michael Christopher — September 16th, 2012, 8:21 pm
And I don’t mean touching your toes either, I mean like splits and the other hard stuff that everyone’s really intimidated of! Prove that you can be superhuman flexible at any age just like everything else you’ve shown is possible! I’m always rooting for you!
Stephen O'K — September 16th, 2012, 10:08 pm
Hi Tim,
This is an exciting initiative. Have any of the findings to date changed your advice that you will be giving your readers in your upcoming cookbook?
Edward — September 17th, 2012, 3:31 am
What a waste of time and what a shame that once again the bigger picture is overlooked with the launch of the NuSI. More stats, more navel-gazing, more science. The only science one needs to guide one’s nutrition decisions are nature and common sense. Do you need to know which fruit has the most vitamin C? Do you need to know how much protein is in red meat? Do you need to know which fish has the most omega-3 oils? No. Michael Pollen summed it up beautifully, “Eat food, not too much, mostly plants”.
David — September 17th, 2012, 6:56 am
I’m very curious to see what the results will be regarding the ingestion of meat.
I’ve heard some interesting theories that humans are not truly carnivores being that we can’t really deal with raw meat; the toughness or the taste. We need to cook it in order to be able to chew it. We need to flavor it with vegetable matter in order to enjoy it. We don’t seem to digest it well. And it seems to cause disease in the long-term.
Could all this be wrong or highly exaggerated? Let’s see.
David
Susan Holland — September 17th, 2012, 11:03 am
Morgan comments: From the sounds of it this is looking pretty much exclusively into obesity
The narrower the focus, the more specific the results, it seems to me. If the project looks at mushrooms, gold, etc., it will dilute the findings, in my opinion.
The world is already looking with alarm at obesity, thanks to recent press. Riding the horse in the direction it is going is usually a good idea!
World attention to findings will be enhanced if there is a special focus on a problem that is very visible and troubling.
Ryan Bradley — September 17th, 2012, 12:59 pm
The best nutritionist/scientist is Mike Dolce. That guy is the man. He helps a lot of the best UFC guys make weight without losing power, energy, and speed.
mark — September 17th, 2012, 8:54 pm
Hey Tim,
Have you heard about the glove developed by the Stanford professors to cool your core temperature quickly? They say using it for workouts BETTER than steroids. Any truth to that?
Kalani — September 18th, 2012, 1:25 pm
in the end, an exclusively whole-food plant-based diet will be the answer to a disease-free, cancer-free, diabetes-free, obesity-free, long and beautiful life!
:):)
Sean — September 18th, 2012, 7:57 pm
It’s a lofty sounding idea, but it’s based on a flawed premise: That there is a “right” diet for everyone. In my practice, I see all kinds of people – some do great on a low-carb diet; others on a high-carb diet. I have one patient who has a borderline alkalosis – very low respiration rate, high breath hold, low pulse, low BP. When he eats low carb, he metabolically produces even less CO2 and goes into metabolic shutdown and has a major sleep apnea crisis each night as his breathing shuts down. SO, i put him on a high carb, low fat diet and give him extra thiamin and some other tricks to get his CO2 up and his physiology shifts and he feels better and has no apnea. Other patients get fat looking at carbs or go into hypoglycemic downward spirals when they dance with sugars and starches: for them, they do better on low carb, so-called paleo fare. I know top athletes who thrive on a very low fat, high carb diet and they have great lab numbers to boot. Others, again, have great numbers and feel great eating tons of eggs and bacon. The bottom line is: we all have unique metabolic and constitutional tendencies. This is just a given in the traditional medicines of China and India, where anyone promoting the “One Perfect Diet” would be looked at as an idiot. The biggest problems with ‘fad’ diets is that they are all written by so-called experts who promote usually what works for them, as if it will work for everyone. Your “perfect” diet depends on your genetic ancestry, your current state of health, activity, and lifestyle; the season and environment in which you reside, and so on. You can’t generalize about that. The problem with so-called scientific approaches to diet is that they are based on massive generalizations and averages over large populations of people. These people have different genetic backgrounds, different upbringings, different lifestyles, different diets, and very different health statuses that they bring to the table. I find most of these studies meaningless, clinically. Likewise how a rodent study on purified fructose consumption can be extrapolated to apply to a human drinking a glass or orange juice or two a day, also boggles my mind. The bottom line is: they can’t. What’s a lot more interesting to me is understanding how macronutrients, vitamins, and electrolytes effect things like cellular respiration, metabolism, and the autonomic nervous system. When we understand the state of a person’s oxidative capacity, autonomic system, etc AND we know how to alter those tendencies via diet and nutrients, that’s where the gold is.
Andrew Karpinski — October 5th, 2012, 4:11 pm
Hey Sean,
Regarding your client, the first one you have described. Yes, he have problems on a low carbohydrate diet because his body don’t know how to use fat. In other words, his fat metabolism is screwed up heavily, also you I’m sure you know during what processes CO2 is produced and from where it comes… (on a cellular level I mean).
Do not put him on a low carbohydrate diet. Instead, slowly reduce amount of CHO and VERY slowly introduce SFAs. He will thank you for that.
And get rid of any PUFAs.
Of course it all depends of his age, etc. but for most people, gentle reduction in CHO intake with re-introduction of SFAs get things done. Best results are observed at about 100g CHO a day.
Anyway, full panel STD will tell you where to go and don’t kill the patient.
Good luck.
P.S get this “Life Without Bread: How a Low-Carbohydrate Diet Can Save Your Life” it’s a good introduction (basic stuff but worth a while).
Matt Beswick — February 5th, 2013, 11:04 am
Is their any research on the role of genetics and carb/protein/fat ratio?
It makes sense. We have evolved to survive in range of habitats and so our genes would reflect that. I am interested in cases where low carb diets DON’T work. Are their cultures that don’t adapt well to low carbohydrate diets. Referring back to the stats on diabetes and “obesity” in the general population it would seems that less and less of the gene pool can cope with the SAD.
Erik — September 19th, 2012, 3:27 am
Great initiative, congratulations! But there could is something missing.
My question is: is this the REAL problem? Knowing what to eat?
I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that we pretty much know the basics for decades: avoid concentrated fats, refined cabs, animal protein, diary and recreational drugs (alcohol, coffee etc). Eat vegetables, fruits, legumes, nuts and whole grains.
So…. given that we already what to eat, now or in the near future (after Nusi’s research) the problem is: we know what’s wrong but we keep doing the same self-defeating behavior for some reason.
WHATEVER Nusi finds to be the perfect diet, I doubt people will manage to implement and sustain it before we address the psychology behing habit change.
Monte Hueftle — September 19th, 2012, 7:59 pm
Do we need this to tell us what we intuitively already know???
Eat more fresh vegetables. A lot more!
Eat much less sugar. A huge amount less!
Eat much less processed foods. A lot less!
Eat no fast food.
Drink no sodas or fruit juices.
Understand that you are eating to live or perform and not eating to be satisfied! Everything doesn’t need to taste good.
I have a yam, avocado, beet, sprouted mung bean, spinach and kale smoothie everyday. Crazy good. Add rice and beans for lunch. Do this because you want to feel great and perform great.
I live in San Diego so very interested in getting an up close and personal look at all of this.
William Reid — September 20th, 2012, 12:46 am
Well…my hero Taleb notwithstanding, now I’m wondering why there are more finance geeks (etc.) than scientists involved as advisors. Seriously, there are only four on the science side. Whatup?
Daniel — September 20th, 2012, 11:47 am
Life is such a beautiful and miraculous thing…NuSI is going to change the world! it already is! The souls involved, are doing a tremendous thing for humankind…it’s only going to get better from here. May The Universe, God, and every / any form of higher power you believe in watch over and bless you all for not only getting this off the ground, but for actually making a difference in people’s lives, just as NuSI already has in mine! Godspeed, Namaste and rest assured, within me, there is a vehicle by which the word shall spread…*Presses both palms together in front of sternum and bows*
Dr Bernard Robertson-Dunn — September 20th, 2012, 5:24 pm
The Manhattan Project was a complex physics problem. Nutrition is a wicked social problem.
If you don’t understand the difference, it is highly likely you won’t succeed.
The Zen of problem solving is – first understand the nature of your problem, otherwise you risk use the wrong tools.
Genevieve Fortin — September 20th, 2012, 11:07 pm
MY DREAM! Unbiased scientific evidence on nutrition, the fuel for our bodies!
Maribel Yap — September 25th, 2012, 9:25 pm
I think it comes from a person to have her/his initiative on what to eat to have a healthy life style. It is not necessarily to base it all scientifically.
Candice — September 26th, 2012, 10:02 pm
Amazing! I’m thrilled. For years I’ve been trying to sift through the net to find reliable research on things like Kombucha tea and Stevia. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be enough financial incentive for studies on these substances. I’m looking forward to seeing some of the results. Thanks ahead to all involved.
Charles Peden — October 3rd, 2012, 12:08 pm
Here is one of the problems I foresee:
Multi-billion dollar industries rely on diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and obesity. They can use legal tactics, data rigging, bribery, and even murder to protect their survival. But here is the real irony: If a study supports a multi-billion dollar industry’s position it will appear rigged and untrustworthy.
There is a need for these experiments to have data available in real-time, where the scientist designed experiments are carried out by randomly assigned technician teams, and whatever other precautions can be implemented to protect the experiments, data, and people involved from the influence of wealthy interests.
Andrew Karpinski — October 5th, 2012, 3:48 pm
As long as Taubes is alive project will be fine. There is already Weston Price Foundation and Price-Pottenger Foundation and really, you can’t go deeper than those two.
Yes, they have no “paper” proof to validate their position (at least not in a modern scientific sense) so hopefully NuSI will get enough money from sources other than pharmacy and food industry to evaluate their position.
Personally I know they are right, I have no doubts saturated fats are the best fuel for our bodies, but personal opinions are not science
I really hope they will be able to get a lot of hard scientific evidence to help spread the word. However, even if they menage to do this, still there is media… there are HUGE money from advertising (you know those “anti” FLU shit! to say the least) so situation won’t be easy.
You know the next big thing?
There was a car, airplane, atom, Internet… Now is time to buy HEALTH.
Soon everyone of us will use something similar to credit card, however, instead of paying for “food” (I mean most people these days eat shit… not a real food…) we will pay for “health”!
That’s where we go… In a sense we are already there and majority just don’t realize this.
Thanks to universe, Garry and others are aware of that fact.
P.S watch what you put into your mouth… If it doesn’t look like part of an animal, be careful! You can’t trust even broccoli these days…
Rhonda Ryan — October 17th, 2012, 8:10 am
I know John Arnold! This is incredible. Can’t wait to see what happens next!
Adam — October 30th, 2012, 1:12 pm
Tim,
I was watching Forks Over Knives, and it seems like that documentary had a pretty straightforward answer on a lot of the causes for health in the ‘States. Will this team be working on more detailed things like what you talked about in The Four Hour Body?
Paul — February 5th, 2013, 3:22 pm
Adam’s comment about Forks Over Knives led me to watch the documentary. I had tried eating healthy before that point and working out, but I just couldn’t keep the discipline needed to get into the shape I wanted to physically.
I am incredibly happy to report that in the first 2 months, I was working out exactly the same, and eating AS MUCH AS I WANTED
and I lost the last 15 pounds that had been staying on for the last year or so trying the other things. I am still VERY happy to report that I now structured a system of a “mostly vegan” diet. I knew I’d miss some foods if I completely cut them out, so on certain days of the year, mostly holidays, I will have non-vegan foods, like ham on Christmas, etc.
So, the ONLY thing I changed was my diet to a whole foods, plant based diet as in Forks Over Knives and the Engine 2 Diet, and I am in the best shape I have been in in 5 years or more. It is actually to the point where I TRY to eat foods like Avacados and breads with some oils, because I DON’T want to lose any more weight, and that is a great problem to have
JD Mumma — February 6th, 2013, 3:28 pm
Congratulations on you success and thanks for the phyto testimonial!
Paul — February 6th, 2013, 3:34 pm
Thanks so much!!
Noah Scales — November 1st, 2012, 7:29 am
Hi, Tim.
Consider the possibilities of how breathing and food construction effect food consumption. Western science understands the effect of food ingredients on the body, but really doesn’t make a distinction between eating a soup of a chunky mash of food, and eating the soup ingredients separately off of a plate…
Awesome project, I’d love to see it succeed, all the best.
Kara — November 8th, 2012, 3:35 pm
I’m going through the 4HB book again and am looking for the exercise web pages listed in the book and THEY AREN’T THERE. Someone broke the links and I cannot even find them through the search. Really? If you expect people to use the book you should maintain the links posted there.
Examples:
http://www.fourhourbody.com/geek-to-freak (p. 187)
http://www.fourhourbody.com/exercises (p. 170)
Please fix your links!
Sherri Heller — November 9th, 2012, 6:42 pm
It was so nice to meet you today, I can’t wait until the book comes out. I am a huge fan of yours. It was a privilege to have had a conversation with you! Good luck with your new book, I will be promoting it!
Best regards,
Sherri Heller
Tim Ferriss — November 11th, 2012, 6:29 pm
Thank you, Sherri. Great to meet you as well!
Pura vida,
Tim