Engineering a “Muse” – Volume 3: Case Studies of Successful Cash-Flow Businesses 248 Comments
One common challenge for readers of The 4-Hour Workweek is the creation of a “muse”: a low-maintenance business that generates significant income. Such a muse is leveraged to finance your ideal lifestyle, which we calculate precisely based on Target Monthly Income (TMI).
I’ve received hundreds of successful case studies via e-mail, and more than 1,000 new businesses were created during a recent Shopify competition, but I’ve presented only a handful of them.
In this installment, I’ll showcase three diverse muses, including lessons learned, what worked, and what didn’t. Income ranges from $2,500 – $25,000 per month…
”Datsusara MMA” by Christopher Odell
Describe your muse in 1-3 sentences
Datsusara MMA makes hemp bags and apparel for martial artists.
What is the website for your muse?
How much revenue is your muse currently generating per month (on average)?
$5,000 – $10,000 per month
To get to this monthly revenue number, how long did it take after the idea struck?
Three years.
How did you decide on this muse?
I was at a crisis point in my life when I realized I needed to do something I truly loved instead of what I was merely skilled at doing.
I thought deeply on things that I loved. One was Mixed Martial Arts, and another was hemp products. That’s when it clicked. I realized that making a high quality hemp bag for MMA enthusiasts would fill a gap in the market.
What ideas did you consider but reject, and why?
I thought of starting a small MMA fight promotion but decided it would be more trouble than I wanted to deal with.
What were some of the main tipping points (if any) or “A-ha!” moments? How did they come about?
It all started to sink in when we got our first prototype. Being able to see and touch the actual product really changes everything. It helped me realize that you truly could make your dreams appear by simply shifting your time and energy into the right places.
What resources or tools did you find most helpful when you were getting started?
A message board called Sherdog.net was our biggest source of early sales. This was due to a few gear review postings by our first customers (friends at my gym).
Having a decent looking website with good product descriptions and photos was critical, as well.
What were your biggest mistakes, or biggest wastes of time/money?
Sending out free gear bags to pro fighters cost us thousands in revenue and was a huge waste, except for the one and only response we got. That one response was from Eddie Bravo, who is well known in the MMA scene and gave us our first pro endorsement. We should have targeted more carefully, because we knew that Eddie loved hemp products and MMA already.
What have been your key marketing and/or manufacturing lessons learned?
In manufacturing, we learned to never rush a product out when you think you are “close enough,” assuming the odds and ends will be taken care of on the final product run. Since we were not 100% specific on what we wanted, our manufacturer cut some corners and cost us quite a bit of money in product exchanges.
But we did learn that if you treat your customers with care, they will stick with you and sometimes become even more loyal despite your mistakes.
If you used a manufacturer, how did you find them? What are your suggestions for first-timers?
I used Alibaba.com to find manufacturers. It was fairly easy but also a bit terrifying since you don’t always know who or what you are really dealing with.
We looked for manufacturers that had experience with hemp and military gear (we wanted these bags to be very strong). We reached out to several companies, judged them by how good their responses were, then chose a few to make our first prototype. After that, we made our final decision based on quality of the prototype and ease of obtaining it.
Any key PR wins? Media, well-known users, or company partnerships, etc.? How did they happen?
Our Facebook fan page probably generates more interest then any other source at this point and it’s growing fast. We also love that it’s free :)
The endorsement from the sample we sent to Eddie Bravo was very useful, as was the mention by Tim Ferriss on Twitter about the sample we sent him.
We were also approached by many distributors that had simply heard of our gear and wanted to get on board. We picked one from each country that would have an exclusive for our gear. We chose the companies that had a good reputation and the best exposure. This has helped us generate over 60% of our sales, but it does impact our revenue negatively since they purchase at a wholesale price.
Where did you register your domain (URL)?
Where did you decide to host your domain?
If you used a web designer, where did you find them?
I had a friend design the site (paid gig).
If you were to do it all over again, what would you do differently?
I would have shopped around more for a better importer, as our current importer charges half what we paid the first and does twice the work.
I also would have started the Facebook fan page right away.
What’s next?!
We may be expanding soon to other markets outside of MMA if we get some solid financial backing.
We hope to make hemp bags and apparel for all lifestyles while maintaining our quality of goods and customer service.
”Ready Set Go Kits” by Amy Sandoz
Describe your muse in 1-3 sentences
I help schools and families prepare for emergencies by offering ready-made emergency kits and free disaster planning information.
What is the website for your muse?
How much revenue is your muse currently generating per month (on average)?
$2,500 – $5,000 per month
To get to this monthly revenue number, how long did it take after the idea struck?
One year.
How did you decide on this muse?
A friend and I were reading The 4-Hour Workweek at the same time and decided to just go for it. We sat down and listed out all the activities we had ever been involved in throughout our lives, then listed out the products that people in those same activities needed. The next steps were picking the five products that were most interesting to us, researching their markets, and seeing whether there was a drop-shipper available. I’m a long-time volunteer at American Red Cross and knew that people had trouble building an emergency kit. When I found an emergency kit manufacturer, I knew I had found my muse.
What ideas did you consider but reject, and why?
Selling salsa dance shoes and apparel was rejected because of a lack of dropshipper in the U.S., and bobbleheads were similarly rejected because of no desire to try to find a manufacturer overseas.
What were some of the main tipping points (if any) or “A-ha!” moments? How did they come about?
My first big sale to a school district – they found me online and I thought “Wow, I actually own a business now!” It really reinforced the online model for me.
What resources or tools did you find most helpful when you were getting started?
I found the “SEO for Dummies” book super helpful, as well as the technical support staff at CoreCommerce.com (my hosted shopping cart software). It was also easy to get overwhelmed, so all action items were broken down into very small pieces, e.g. “Research names for business” or “Research hosted shopping carts.”
What were your biggest mistakes, or biggest wastes of time/money?
I’ve spent a lot of money on seminars and books promising to get me more sales or to the top of Google search for my keywords… and I’d like to get that money back. Most of that stuff was useless.
I also spent a lot of time trying to do things myself. I’m happy with the knowledge I’ve gained, but I think I would have started making money sooner if I had outsourced more things.
What have been your key marketing and/or manufacturing lessons learned?
You think you know who your target market is, but you really have no idea until you have paying customers. When I started the business, I was convinced that my target market was moms in the 35-55 range. I’m finding now that it’s really more of a 50/50 split between men and women.
If you used a manufacturer, how did you find them? What are your suggestions for first-timers?
I found my manufacturer through an online search and submitted an application to become a reseller. I ordered products from them to see what kind of packaging they came in, how long they took to arrive, and to determine the quality of the kits.
My suggestion for first-timers would be to go out and tour the operation (if you live nearby) and get to know the owner. That way if you have any trouble later, you’ll know where to turn.
Any key PR wins? Media, well-known users, or company partnerships, etc.? How did they happen?
I applied for the Project Rev small business contest through Deluxe Corporation and won! They have been really helpful in getting press coverage and exposure for my business. I also hired a public relations freelancer and we set up a yearly schedule for pitches. I’m happy to report that she has already helped me land four feature print articles and an invitation to appear on a local TV station.
Where did you register your domain (URL)?
Where did you decide to host your domain?
If you were to do it all over again, what would you do differently?
I would have found a reputable SEO person and hired them early on. That would have saved a lot of time and confusion.
What’s next?!
I’ve just launched a complementary site (www.ReadySetGoKitsDisasterPlan.com) that allows families to download free disaster planning templates that they can fill out and then tuck into their emergency kit. I’m also experimenting with creating videos about disaster preparedness to help raise awareness.
”Music Teachers Helper” by Brandon Pearce
Describe your muse in 1-3 sentences
Online software to help private music teachers manage the business side of their teaching studios.
What is the website for your muse?
http://www.musicteachershelper.com
How much revenue is your muse currently generating per month (on average)?
More than $25,000 per month
To get to this monthly revenue number, how long did it take after the idea struck?
Five years.
How did you decide on this muse?
I used to teach private piano lessons, and got frustrated having to keep track of how much they owed me. I wrote a simple program to track it, put it online so students could check the amount themselves and pay, and it just took off from there.
It started small, making just $1,000 or so per month after the first couple years, but it continues to grow to this day.
What ideas did you consider but reject, and why?
I thought about making a program to help private teachers of all types (ie. dance, yoga, and karate instructors, etc). I rejected it because I thought it was too broad to make one program that will fit all of these types. However, I did eventually create something for larger studios with multiple teachers (www.studiohelper.com) that serves a broader audience, and it’s also doing well. But it’s more difficult to market to such a broad audience.
What were some of the main tipping points (if any) or “A-ha!” moments? How did they come about?
When my father-in-law lost his high-position job because of downsizing, I realized that there is no such thing as job security when you work for someone else. I became determined to find a way to have money come to me, no matter how much I work or where I live.
What resources or tools did you find most helpful when you were getting started?
When I started, I was doing everything myself – the programming, the design, the marketing, etc. And I knew basically nothing about starting a business. The Internet was helpful for research, but after I read 4HWW, I became a lot more productive. I started outsourcing things, built up enough courage to quit my job, and the business really took off. These days, I’m working about five hours per week, living in Costa Rica (for now), and thoroughly enjoying my life! (Thanks Tim!!!)
What were your biggest mistakes, or biggest wastes of time/money?
My biggest mistakes, financially and emotionally, were when I partnered with individuals and companies who ended up being more of a drain than a help. They were expensive to remove, as well. But those experiences helped me learn to value my time and product, and to be more cautious about who I do business with.
What have been your key marketing and/or manufacturing lessons learned?
With a complex web application, you can’t write it once and be done; you need to continue making enhancements and listen to user feedback in order to have a successful product.
Any key PR wins? Media, well-known users, or company partnerships, etc.? How did they happen?
No, it’s been a steady, slow-growing process, all self-funded and mostly self-promoted.
Where did you register your domain (URL)?
Where did you decide to host your domain?
If you used a web designer, where did you find them?
oDesk.com (Although initially, I designed it myself).
If you were to do it all over again, what would you do differently?
I would have kept the product simpler, and been more picky about what features to include, rather than adding nearly every feature the customer wanted (necessitating a huge redesign later).
What’s next?!
In this business, I’ll be focusing more on marketing and really getting the word out, and pushing our affiliate program more. I’m not sure if I will start another business soon, but I’m starting to look into real estate, just to diversify my income a little.
I’m also working on a book about what I’ve learned in the process of creating this online business, in the hopes that it will help others who want to do something similar. I plan to spend more time writing music in the months and years ahead, continue to travel, and enjoy my life doing whatever I can to make the world a better place.
###
Parts one and two of this series — another six success stories — can be found here.
Do you have a successful muse that’s generating more than $1,000 per month?
Please tell me about it! If it stands out (meaning you give specific details of lessons learned and what’s worked vs. what didn’t), I’m happy to promote you and help further increase your revenue. If you qualify and this sounds like fun, please fill out this form.
Both physical and digital goods are welcome, as are services, as long as they’re low-maintenance, income-generating “muses” as described in The 4-Hour Workweek.
Posted on March 4th, 2011
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248 Responses to “Engineering a “Muse” – Volume 3: Case Studies of Successful Cash-Flow Businesses”
March 4th, 2011
8:32 pm
Inspiring me to get back to narrowing my muse, right post at the right time for me. Thanks again!
March 4th, 2011
8:40 pm
It’s shocking to see what some of this small niches make.
But it’s a great thing – it leaves no room for excuses.
March 15th, 2011
1:47 pm
This made me think, I’m using my time and energy on the wrong places. All we need is to find that leverage.
Really no room for excuses now.
March 4th, 2011
9:15 pm
Great!!! This stuff has actually been on my mind lately, and this is just the jolt I need to get my butt in gear!
I’m interested in knowing how many false starts people make, if any? I have a number of ideas, but have a hard time determining which one to move forward on first… Any suggestions?
March 7th, 2011
3:11 am
Check out Eric Ries’ lean startup and customer development ideas. It’s very close to the muse testing phase of 4HWW.
You can basically test an idea with less than $50 if you are willing to do most of the work manually. Adwords/paid traffic as recommended by Tim, is a more expensive but more automated alternative.
March 4th, 2011
9:24 pm
Cool stuff. I always love case studies. Thanks, Tim :-)
March 4th, 2011
10:22 pm
I’d love to see more on how people are actually testing the viability of these muses before pushing ahead. Is the Adwords method in the 4HWW still valid?
March 5th, 2011
3:35 pm
AdWords is always valid. In fact a lot of internet marketers promote this method for use when developing a product. I’m pretty sure is not the way Google intended the product, but it still works.
Mind you that Tim used AdWords to check which title converts best. While developing a product you need a website that ‘sells’ the product and you use AdWords to get quick, albeit paid, traffic.
March 5th, 2011
11:23 pm
That’s what I’m hearing a lot. When I use adwords to look up search volume for the obvious keyphrases on these muses though (eg mixed martial arts bag,mma bag,music teacher software – all broadmatched) Google tells me that they get basically zero clicks a day. Only emergency kits really turned up anything at all.
So, we know these muses are successful and yet Adwords seems to say that there’s zero demand. This leaves me wondering how they actually did test that suggested better results than adwords.
March 7th, 2011
3:30 am
They still are. But the effect can vary depending on your target market and how painful their need is. I’ve realized that when I am researching online it’s just so much easier for me to ignore the ads these years. But when I’m really in need of something and the organic results don’t present a solution, I’ll naturally look at and click through the ads.
A good alternative is Facebook ads which can be very targeted. This along with their freshness makes them quite hard to ignore. I remember a single friend who came back home empty-handed on a Saturday night, fired up his facebook and the first thing he saw was an ad that asked: “28 and still single?” He cursed out loud but clicked on it out of frustration!
@Monkiii: Could it be because of the SEO/organic results? If I were a frustrated music teacher and searching for solutions, I would search for music teacher software today and would be more naturally inclined to click on the very first organic (non-ad) search result: http://bit.ly/edARML
March 4th, 2011
10:48 pm
Ahh so stoked. Love the muse case studies. These are the most helpful of your articles young mister Ferris.
I’ve noticed that you are really into your bags? You review them quite often.
Anywho…
Cheerio.
March 4th, 2011
11:48 pm
Case Studies are great – keep them coming !
March 5th, 2011
12:01 am
Love to read about these case studies! Very inspirational for me. I would be interested in more specific info about web hosting and/or finding good manufactures in the future. Two things I’m currently struggling with.
I’m working towards building my own shopping cart site and would be interested if anyone has advice or experience with a web host. Possibly with a bias towards Ruby on Rails.
By The Way, I had ordered a T-shirt from Datsusara (Hemp of course). Now one of my favorite shirts to wear.
March 5th, 2011
12:40 am
Very interesting read. I’ve been recently made redundant and still looking for my muse, but your case studies are a great source of inspiration.
March 5th, 2011
2:49 am
Is it just me or is it all in the marketing?!
March 5th, 2011
3:40 am
Going through this and other case studies, I’m seeing a trend here.
The best cash flow muses are not products or information – but SaaS companies.
Interesting!
March 7th, 2011
9:49 pm
This may sound dumb, but what is an SaaS company??
March 10th, 2011
3:04 pm
Not dumb, I was wondering the same. A google search showed me it means “Software as a Service.” In other words, it’s software on demand.
March 5th, 2011
3:44 am
Try Shopify.
March 5th, 2011
4:13 am
Awesome post Tim, the Muse case studies are my favourites. Thanks for reviewing physical products instead of digital ones:)
March 19th, 2011
7:43 pm
However we do need for some super talented person to develope a program to track our 4HB and 4HWW progress. There are not any good sites or programs that I have found!
March 5th, 2011
5:12 am
Revenue? Meaningless. How about some profit numbers, along with the hours per week required to net said profit?
March 7th, 2011
12:46 am
Totally agree with Bob here. Really would have thought you might have asked how many hours they worked to receive said revenue.
March 5th, 2011
6:24 am
Great piece on MusicTeachHelper.com. Brandon not only has a great niche, but his programming and design skills appear sharp. Very nice video. Bravo!
We have a similar project we are ginning up in the home improvement market for architects, interior designers and landscape professionals. Very motivational post Tim. Thank you! (I needed this :)
March 5th, 2011
6:26 am
I love see these case studies Tim, keep em coming! I’m with Bob that I too would be interested in seeing some profit numbers. Thanks!
March 5th, 2011
6:38 am
How about some case studies of unsuccessful enterprises? These can be as educational as the successful ones. Perhaps even we could end up crowd sourcing help? Sound like an idea for a new website?
keep them coming Tim
March 7th, 2011
3:33 am
I agree. There’s a lot one can learn from failures and potential pitfalls.
March 5th, 2011
7:21 am
I love it. More stuff on muses please.
March 5th, 2011
7:57 am
Wow, Tim! Thanks for the spotlight! I’m honored. I guess I can count this as my first big “PR Win”. :)
A couple commenters have said they want profit numbers. I spend about $10-12k/month to run Music Teacher’s Helper these days, so the rest is profit. And I work about 5 hours per week.
I should also clarify that while I have used oDesk for a lot of things, including design, the person who designed the latest version of the Music Teacher’s Helper site is my friend, Jeff Whitehead (his company is FridgeWorks). He just started a portable pizza oven business, though, so I’m not sure how much design he’s doing these days.
March 5th, 2011
11:34 am
THanks for this response with details about profit etc Brandon – keepin’ it real. And WELL DONE with your biz. Congrats
March 5th, 2011
4:32 pm
Hey Brandon,
Thanks for being so forthcoming with your profit figures- and congrats on your success! Very inspirational.
March 5th, 2011
10:34 pm
I checked out the Music Teacher’s Helper site. It is awesome! I’ve been a music teacher for years and love the ease of use and thought-out features. I build registration systems as a hobby and find the system so well thought out. I’ve already recommended your Studio Helper site to a friend who runs an arts center. She loved it and is getting ready to use it. Thanks!
March 7th, 2011
8:18 am
Brandon -
Great website and service!! What was your programming experience when you started your business? Did you have a heavy background/education in computer programming?
Sometimes I think about tools or software to help people, but then I kind of shut the idea down b/c I have literally no programming background.
Cheers,
Nate
March 7th, 2011
9:24 am
@Brandon Pearce – 10-12k/month? that seems really high. can you share the break down on that? i.e. hosting, support staff, etc.
March 10th, 2011
7:55 pm
@Brandon Pearce
Thanks for sharing some of the details about how your business is currently running and what you were able to outsource.
March 5th, 2011
8:07 am
These case studies continue to inspire me even with some of my own setbacks, but hey I’m failing quickly.
In the spirit of following your ideas, I’ll be participating in an awesome athletic team event coming up this fall – Booze included. I’d like to see if you’d join our team. You have my email so you can get in touch with me. I’ll get your assistant or anyone else all the info.
March 5th, 2011
8:07 am
Tim, anyone can make $5000 a month by spending $6000. How much profit are they making? Revenue is for the ego!
March 6th, 2011
1:14 am
Agreed. Tim or Charile, if you guys are following, we’d like to see profit, not revenue for future case studies.
March 7th, 2011
3:36 am
I third that.
Although, some people might refrain from sharing their stories if they HAVE to mention their profit. I suggest that Tim includes that as optional and perhaps ask for a range instead of exact figures.
March 7th, 2011
9:54 pm
Sounds like a good idea. I never did understand why the amount of money one makes has to be some sort of ultra-classified secret…lol. While it may not be smart to show a complete stranger your bank statement, I don’t see the harm in someone giving a rough estimate of what their profits actually are.
March 5th, 2011
8:09 am
Very cool post! I love the point about not assuming you know your target market, until you actually see the numbers that prove your assumptions.
And I agree – profit numbers would be much more interesting than gross revenue.
Keep ‘em coming!
March 5th, 2011
8:25 am
Great Inspiration… Neet to so how you can break into a market with a single product, something simple like gear bag. If that works out and you start to make a name for yourself the door is now wide open for exspansion. The opportunities out there are endless.
March 5th, 2011
9:03 am
Nice Article and awesome real life examples Tim. Truly inspiring.
March 5th, 2011
9:36 am
Happy to report that my muse is getting there…slow and steady wins the race.
I finally found you Ferris, just what I needed for that last 10 miles of a marathon
March 5th, 2011
9:39 am
Hey Tim, thanks for these case studies. Can you ask them next time how much time per month or week it takes to maintain such business once it is built?
March 5th, 2011
10:08 am
Great post! It really made me reflect on the business that I started 3 years ago, all of the ups and downs…
March 5th, 2011
10:11 am
Rad.
Ya know.. I run into this dilemma a bit every now and then, just like the person from readysetgokits.com, and that is do I try to find the best possible way to either outsource or find someone extremely precise in a certain area (such as SEO, for example), or do I learn everything myself, appreciate the knowledge, failure, and calibration.
I’ve found it both more rewarding, and permanent (I get to keep the knowledge), to learn things on my own.
Review: This is incredible. All of these people are awesome. Tim, you’re like an enhancement to evolution, and because your work spreads out all over the world, you’re creating other “smart people.”
It’s nice to see people trying things, having a long term perspective and waiting it out until they reach even a bit of success. That’s super helpful for me and I’m sure others who are working on big things.
I think what’s extremely important about muses, or any kind of creative project is the positive feedback loop. The reinforcement that “wow, I actually own a business now,” because of your recent sales. Great stuff! That reinforced the online model and told your brain, “yes, this works.” That’s super powerful.
Great products, I may even pick up a readysetgokit.. I love that kind of stuff. Tim, thanks for providing an environment for people to go and be around, and learn from, other like minded, creative people.
Ryan
P.S. Super informative and filled with golden nugget lessons.
March 7th, 2011
3:41 am
Good point Ryan.
I would go with neither way. Neither total outsourcing or total learning is a good path to take IMHO. I’ve heard some outsourcing experts that you’ll need to know the BASICS of almost everything you outsource. Learning everything such as learning programming if you’re non-tech, has a low ROI.
March 5th, 2011
10:18 am
Always love to read the muse case studies. Other questions I would have answered include:
How did you test the idea before manufacturing it? And how money was invested before you saw a return?
For someone like me with little capital, cheap testing is key. Any ideas out there aside from google adwords campaigns and faux landing pages?
Great work as always Tim!
March 5th, 2011
10:18 am
Great post. Nice to see a variety of products and especially nice to see a pure web service earning so much.
March 5th, 2011
10:21 am
These case studies are great. It shows you don’t need to create the next facebook in order to make a successful muse.
March 5th, 2011
10:22 am
These look like great businesses, one thing that is missing from the interviews is asking how much time these business’s are taking up. I though to be described as a muse it should be something that can be maintained with minimum hours and makes enough money to support other activities. It sounds like most of these businesses are full time jobs, with the exception of Music Teachers Helper where Brandon has commented he only works 5 hours a week.
If the other businesses are run on mimimal hours I am also curious what the founders are doing with the spare time and why they made the decision to do other things rather than trying working more hours on it and making it something bigger.
March 5th, 2011
11:07 am
Thanks for sharing this great case! I have also used guru.com to outsource technical and marketing functions and 3d cart for ecommerce.
March 5th, 2011
11:37 am
by far my favorite posts are the muse case studies.
When testing the muse, how do you know what’s too niche and what is too broad. It’s hard for me to decipher google trends, ie is 150 a good number in local monthly searches? Or is it ridiculously low? I don’t know what to compare it to really.
March 7th, 2011
3:44 am
Depends!
If those 150 searches are made for a solution/product that can cost $1000+ then it’s worth exploring more.
March 5th, 2011
11:42 am
Nice to see Datsusara featured, thanks for that. I’m sending people over here too although I find it amusing how many times people ask me if I have heard of the Four Hour Work Week not realizing it’s principals helped us get started.
Thanks to Tim and all of you for of the support.
Oh and as for profit statements I’ll admit it’s far under the gross but for now it’s enough that we keep expanding and I can pay my expenses living in nice parts of California (the later being the bulk of costs :)
Good luck to you all, may your muse be kind.
March 7th, 2011
4:03 pm
These are great cases studies. Thanks Tim! Perfectly timed to keep the motivation alive!
To Chris, I really dig the bag you developed. I’m not a MMA fighter, but I can appreciate the usefulness of your product. I have a few questions regarding your venture and would love any feedback you can give:
1. Design – Did you design the bag yourself or did you have to hire a freelance product designer/company and you just gave them the details of your idea? Did the designer work for a one-time flat fee? How different did the final product turn out compared to when you first thought of the idea?
2. Was it costly to have a prototype made? You mentioned you assumed the odds and ends would be taken care of on the final product run. Does this mean that no second prototype was made after giving feedback on the first prototype? Would it have been an option to have them make a second prototype before the final production run?
3. You mentioned you have distributors in other countries now. Does your product ship to them from the manufacturer or from you?
4. Were you able to easily negotiate a minimum quantity order from the manufacturer? Since you used Alibaba, I’m guessing you worked with a manufacturer in China? Did you visit them or was it easy to stay local and get the product developed through correspondence?
5. You mentioned you wish you had shopped around for a better importer. This part confuses me a bit. I thought that YOU were the importer. Since you were working with a manufacturer on developing this product, I assumed you placed the order with them to ship the goods to you. Who is this third-party importer you are referring to and where did you find them?
6. Lastly, it states that it took three years before the idea struck. In those three years, what part of the endeavor took the longest?
While my “muse” isn’t in bags, I am interested in developing a new line of school supplies based on some ideas that have been rummaging around in my head for a while and I think that your feedback would be very helpful to anyone wanting to bring product to market, regardless of industry. Thanks again for any answers you can provide. Your story, as well as the other case studies are very inspiring to me!
March 5th, 2011
12:14 pm
Awesome Post Again!!! Thanks
March 5th, 2011
1:03 pm
Another great case examples. Thanks!!
March 5th, 2011
1:52 pm
Great article, was a little shock how long these businesses took to generate good revenue. The 4HWW endorsed setting up a muse which could be generate significant revenue and automated after only a few months, is this still the case?
March 5th, 2011
2:52 pm
Holy cr*p, some of these ideas are great – even better than the first volume – I love the first two ideas – and the music helpers is genius, too. Good to know that 5 years, 3 years even, is a really do-able timeline.
March 7th, 2011
3:46 am
Note that it can be accelerated through getting some press.
March 5th, 2011
2:54 pm
thx tim, would be nice if you would do a little video
March 5th, 2011
3:07 pm
These case study posts, while energizing to read about others taking initiative, could be made more helpful by being a little more detailed in their answers.
And, importantly, where be the info-product muses? Info products where emphasised in the 4HWW, and other than the “A* student” info-product you video reviewed, there’s been nothing else. C’mon Tim, get them up on here! =)
March 7th, 2011
3:47 am
I suggest checking out Eben Pagan’s materials such as Guru Blueprint. I’m not affiliated with him in anyway but love the quality of his products.
March 10th, 2011
4:43 pm
Tim did an excellent interview with Eben not so long ago.
http://www.getaltitude.com/teleclass/091217_timferriss_replay.asp
It’s really worth checking out for 4HWW newbies. If you’ve been around the game a bit longer are really have your fundamentals down, heard a lot of the examples Tim talks about already… etc you might want to move on to some of his lesser known content on YouTube and such.
GB
March 5th, 2011
3:34 pm
I really love that bag – and the focus of the marketing. Great graphics and really nice product… maybe I should become an Ultimate Fighter?
Really inspiring case study. Thanks guys!
March 5th, 2011
3:48 pm
My brother and I are creating our muse. We should have started earlier. I’ve had two aha moments, my first at a Renegade Training Certification Seminar with John Davies and I realized how much I knew and could offer others on “Fitness” and “Health” issues. My second while reading 4HB and thinking, gee, I know a lot of this and have a lot I could add.
March 5th, 2011
3:57 pm
To clarify a shared concern here, what does “revenue” refer to? Are we talking gross sales? net cash flow income?
March 8th, 2011
7:50 am
A simple Google search on the terms “accounting definition revenue” yields….
Usually the following business transactions cause earning of revenue and their recognition in accounting:
* Sale of goods
* Provision of services
* Permission granted to others to use the assets of the business (leasing, renting, etc)
* Selling of assets other than goods (sale of machinery)
The main features of revenue are the following:
* It arises from the trading activities of a business
* It creates inflow of funds to the business
* It is measured in terms of money
* It is always related to a particular accounting period
* It is a result of a series revenue generating activities
* Capital is the source of revenue
March 5th, 2011
4:24 pm
Tim, that post is what makes your book and blog different from all the air sandwiches (= other business books) out there. I think the owner of the Ready Set Go Kits would agree: “I’ve spent a lot of money on seminars and books promising to get me more sales or to the top of Google search for my keywords… and I’d like to get that money back. Most of that stuff was useless.”
March 5th, 2011
6:18 pm
Fantastic ideas! I’m in the midst of launching a martial-arts based fitness site and program. This is quite encouraging. I like the the part on the first muse that talks about the crisis point of their life. I’m at the same point right now. Anything to encourage me to keep going and not go back to a corporate job helps right now! Just because you’re good at something, doesn’t mean you don’t dread doing it.
March 5th, 2011
6:23 pm
Awesome Post Tim. I will keep working on my muse!
March 5th, 2011
6:48 pm
LOL I’m not going to lie, some of the figures that these muses make are… enviable.
March 5th, 2011
7:59 pm
These case studies are great. Congratulations to these people for creating their muse! It sounds like a good niche is the way to go. Thanks Tim for sharing this inspiring info!
March 5th, 2011
8:32 pm
Wow, the Music Teachers Helper site is CLUTCH for a friend of mine who teaches private piano lessons. Great idea!
Tim, in a totally unrelated thought, I’m very curious to know what your thoughts are/will be on the movie Limitless (http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/limitless/) that’s coming out on March 18th. Watching the trailer reminds me of the neural-enhancing bonus chapters in the 4HB.
Your book, this movie, and Inception have my brain doing crazy and creative things. :)
- Josh
March 5th, 2011
8:46 pm
Great stuff and Holla Atcha Boy!
March 5th, 2011
9:17 pm
Nice, loving these posts. Still working on getting that first idea! (I know, I know, not a real excuse)
March 5th, 2011
9:34 pm
Does Tim have any thoughts in his busy mind on spirituality?
This would be a nice change of pace from his usual posts. After all, you can’t take it with you…
March 7th, 2011
3:50 am
You haven’t heard of his new book? ;) http://www.holyblasphemy.net/2011/01/the-four-hour-soul-how-to-get-into-heaven-have-a-flawless-spiritual-body-and-utilize-the-most-powerful-pieces-of-world-religions-to-maximize-your-efforts-and-payout/culture
March 5th, 2011
10:35 pm
excellent!!!!!!!!!!!
very cool!!!!!!!!!!!
tim any muay thai training camp in thailand?
thanks
March 5th, 2011
11:10 pm
Hi Tim, if you don’t mind sharing what is your BLOOD TYPE?
I strictly follow the eating Right for Your Type and your diet and have had much success. I’m a B, am in great shape (working with a trainer) and seem to do really well with lactose-free dairy and dried fruit.
March 6th, 2011
3:07 am
Thanks Tim
Very timely & inspirational
Would love to see more success stories like this
Andy
March 6th, 2011
5:39 am
It’s always inspiring to hear about peoples muses, absolutely one of the most giving things is to hear what people have actually done in real life with regards to business.
I filled out the form and sent you the story behind my company, I hope you find it as interesting as I’ve found these stories!
March 6th, 2011
5:55 am
Always enjoy reading case studies of people having successful muses.
March 6th, 2011
6:41 am
Thanks Tim for case studies. Trust our (yet to be figured out) muse will be a case study on this (our favourite) blog.
March 6th, 2011
8:43 am
I was feeling overwhelmed & discouraged until I got this muse email and read it. Thanks for the re-motivation. I just hit the breaking point at my 50 hr per week job and quit this week. I have several muses I’m toying with – and will be putting the next two weeks to better use – spending about 6 hrs a day (instead of 10) developing the business, website, and at the same time spending more time with my family. I have enough saved to live for about 6 months – I’m sure I can duplicate my paycheck within 1-2 months based on testing ideas on ebay, craigslist, and other online venues for the last 2 months while still employed. Within 6 months I should be very automated – will update then – and may be one of your ‘case studies’ by the end of the year.
Thanks for the great book, blog, and emails!
March 6th, 2011
9:05 am
Great post TIm!! My muse launches in 24 days. Excellent timing and very inspiring.
March 6th, 2011
9:14 am
Love these case studies. The music helper website was especially inspiring. Well done.
I can’t wait to add my muse to the list. I’m in the middle of creating an audio walking tour of my small town. Would love to pull in $2-3k per month. Launching late May……….!
March 6th, 2011
12:25 pm
This is some great info Tim. Add this to the info in your book and I am ready to rock!!
Greg
March 6th, 2011
1:18 pm
Much appreciated Tim. Thank you for putting these great examples out there for everybody.
March 6th, 2011
1:46 pm
I appreciate the format of the questions, Tim. Very useful, very clear.
Thanks,
Chase
March 6th, 2011
4:56 pm
I love learning from from all people who had the courage to get out there and make something happen! Inspriring.
Tim, please keep these coming!
March 6th, 2011
8:10 pm
I have dozens of ideas but don’t know where to start–is there a page for this that breaks down the steps?
March 7th, 2011
2:27 am
Rob- Start with Tim’s book.
March 6th, 2011
10:40 pm
Tim,
I just submitted my company CharityHappenings Ticketing for the next volume.
Thanks for changing my life.
Best,
Justin
Read 4HWW July 4th, 2010.
March 6th, 2011
11:31 pm
It’s really reassuring to know that these muses take between 1-5 years to build up, for those of us still in the early stages of executing our ideas and uncertain of “when” we will consistent results. Thanks so much Tim.
March 7th, 2011
1:54 am
Tim, thanks for another outstanding post, highly inspiring. I wonder if you realise how many people you have motivated and inspired to move forward to a better lifestyle. Thank you so much!
I am in the process (still early, but you have to start somewhere) of developing my own muse. For the moment I am using the help of a couple of friends in their spare time but soon I’ll be faced with having to make some choices:
1 – Get an external developer (so pay someone for a work package)
2 – Get a partner (so share a percentage of the profits – if and when they come!)
3 – Carry on using friends’ free time
For example, yesterday I emailed a friend of a friend who is a talented programmer to ask for some help and of course he wanted to know if I am offering a permanent position (far from that at the moment), some freelance job or it’s a private project (more like the latter for the time being). For the time being there is no money in the project whatsoever, we still need to make a prototype to make sure we can make this work, but of course it is fair to pay a fee for his professional services if he requires so.
My question is more in the line of what to do in the case of friends that take part in the development from the beginning out of personal interest. If this muse ever comes to work out I would like everyone to be treated fairly.
I would love to hear from people who have gone through this process how you set up some sort of agreement with whoever you bring on-board in such a project, so that from the beginning misunderstandings are avoided and everyone gets what they deserve and are happy in the end.
Many thanks.
March 7th, 2011
2:31 am
Another very interesting post. I never get tired reading your posts. Thanks for sharing this one! :)
March 7th, 2011
3:34 am
Regarding the hemp bags and alibaba.com in general, how do you make sure they are genuine manufacturers and not just middlemen? When you do a search for “hemp backpack” there, just look at the beige one, identical product, same photo, offered by 4 different “manufacturers”. How do you protect against that? An earlier muse case study reported visiting China in person or hiring an agent there to check the manufacturer out in person. Does anyone have experience on how to do that (where to find such an agent, are they reliable, costs?)
March 7th, 2011
6:45 am
Good post. Actual case studies are always great content.
But, is it just myself who think something important is missing from these case studies?
I mean there seems to be a huge missing gap between having a great idea and being a success. That is the part that I think most entrepreneurs are interested in.
March 7th, 2011
9:00 am
Tim,
I hope this reaches you. I read 4HWW back in October/ November and got to work on my Muse. I was laid off in December and poured myself into full-time entrepreneurship as a result. Sincere thanks for your support and insight (via book). You helped me avoid countless time wasters and solidify several sound decisions in the process of developing my company. The site/ product launched this week. I’d love to send you a set of my cards as a thanks – knowing you’re a language geek like me :) (and dancer, traveler, life-long learner, etc.) THANK YOU!
March 10th, 2011
8:08 pm
Congratulations, Kellie! :)
March 7th, 2011
9:42 am
Very impressed with these entrepreneurs. Interested in knowing more about the seo they do and how it help. I agree in starting my business the biggest waste of time and resources was partnering with someone else who did not have the same focus as me.
March 7th, 2011
10:19 am
Okay everyone, I am reading all of this and I cannot figure out how to apply to myself. I am a chiropractor and just want to see my business increase without resorting to scare tactics or gimmicks like many of the competing chiropractors do. I have been reading the 4 hour work week, but I am just having some difficultly figuring out how to apply it. Any help from you bright minded, business minded people out there would be appreciated. Thanks.
March 8th, 2011
8:16 am
What happened to good old marketing and networking?
What are you doing to let the world know your business exists? Are you doing any advertising, giving seminars, attending networking groups, attending/giving free clinics, volunteering, etc?
With the weather warming up, are there outdoor events where large numbers of people congregate where you can volunteer and/or sponsor: farmer’s markets, jog-a-thons, chili cook-offs, running events, etc?
Do you offer massage services? If so, bring your therapist(s) along with their table or better yet, a portable chair massages, and offer free massages.
Craft a special deal, put it on an attractive marketing piece (Vistaprint is reasonable priced for 8.5″ x 5.5″ postcards) and make sure that everybody that passes by gets a copy.
Can you create and mail a 1,000 postcards every 2 weeks for 6 months in your office’s zip code? You can print them on your own printer, so your costs would be paper, ink, and postage.
Most people think that the technical things – the idea, the product, or the service – are the key to success in business. It isn’t. It’s the sales and marketing. If nobody knows you exist, then you won’t have any customers. In turn you’ll have no revenue, no profit, and eventually you’ll have to shut down.
The SBA says 50% of businesses close by the end of the 1st year, and almost all by the end of 4 years. The say that it is almost always due to lack of cash from being undercapitalized. I reject that conclusion. The businesses fail from lack of cash because they have no customers. And they have no customers because they engage in almost no marketing.
There’s a reason why Microsoft, IBM, Home Depot, Lowes, and all the other “big companies” are big – they were once small companies that marketed themselves relentlessly. The marketing was probably the biggest non-payroll component of their budgets in the beginning. But it was viewed as an investment in the business, not an expense to be minimized.
March 7th, 2011
12:03 pm
Amazing the impact the “4 Hour Work Week” has had. While the country is going through miserable economic times, the bright spot is that we all have the opportunity, with the required time and effort, to learn a solid internet based business model that will lead to a very attractive lifestyle.
March 7th, 2011
12:44 pm
I just started the Earn1k class over at Ramit Sethi’s blog. I’m hoping to get a taste of starting a business there until I can figure out something to create my first Muse.
I’m really excited and these three Muses really inspire me! :D
March 7th, 2011
12:57 pm
Hi Tim,
It may be worthwhile to run a complimentary set of articles about muses that did not succeed. Oftentimes we learn more from failure than success…
March 7th, 2011
1:13 pm
Does anybody have the contact info for reputable and responsive contract manufacturers for nutritional products, emphasis on the reputable and responsive part?
I’m also looking for direct contacts, and not the sales people who insert themselves into the middle of the transaction and mark up the price quotes..
Thanks!
March 7th, 2011
4:44 pm
Again great tips for all of us, who are still looking for their muses.
I am still in progress of searching my muse and the main obstacle, which I think myself and many people face is the “just f*king do it” attitude…. all instructions are in the book, many of us have analyzed things, probably selected a few ideas (better or worse) and are almost ready to start…. just the KICK is needed…
March 8th, 2011
3:51 pm
My suggestion: reframe it as a “learning project”. This way, you won’t mind spending 100 bucks on adwords and site design to test your idea. Similar to what Tim did with angel investing (refer to his Real-World MBA posts)
March 7th, 2011
5:42 pm
Tim: I just read The 4-Hour Body. I have an idea that maybe you might be interested in. I am 72 years old, in good health and want to live a long and healthy life. Many of the ideas in your book are for younger people. How about a program for older people, say 50+? Such a program could also benefit you personally as it wil show you what happens when an older person follows your advice. I am willing to be the person who trys out the program activities (at least some of them!) I also have a doctoral degree in health education so I have a good knowledge base to work with.
If you think this idea might work contact me by email and we can go from there. I live near Stanford on the Peninsula so it could be easy to meet.
John Martin.
March 7th, 2011
5:48 pm
Tim,
These are always the best posts. I’ve noticed that when I meet people in business for themselves I have begun to interview them about it. The response is universally positive (business owners like talking about their businesses). It’s very interesting stuff.
These posts are also a great example of just how many different businesses opportunities there are.
I’d like to see more about how people got their first sale though. That should be a question.
March 7th, 2011
6:47 pm
Tim you’ve gotta keep these posts coming. Nothing can replace experience! Hearing from people that have done exactly what I want to do (automated income) is so extremely valuable to me. I read 4HWW about two years ago and got really tied up with surviving through getting laid off and then managing some investments I have made. Now I am back in the game researching everything you have put on your site regarding this topic. Every single case study is so very helpful. You said you wrote your books as a service – well thanks for that service!! I had been struggling with a bunch of other crap I tried network marketing, etc. and I wanted passive income without the cheesiness. When I read 4HWW I said out loud “this guy gets me. He gets it!” Thanks again man. I will keep you posted as I restart this process. Also enjoying the 4HB too. So much to enjoy and do, so little time!
March 7th, 2011
10:28 pm
Very cool to see these. And the survival kit one in particular as it was an idea I entertained. I just today sat down and figured out my muse is currently generating an avg profit of $500 a month with bad (i.e. nonexistent marketing). I see a lot of upside for my current plan and am already thinking 2-3 plans ahead. Thanks for the help and congrats folks!
March 8th, 2011
7:36 am
Great read! Cool case studies.
March 8th, 2011
11:16 am
Hi all,
It’s Amy, owner of Ready Set Go Kits – thanks for all of your great comments and some of you have been emailing with ideas and questions, thanks for your interest!
To follow up on some of the questions in the comment stream:
1. How much time do I spend per week? I designed my business to be a true muse so if I don’t want to or don’t have the time then I don’t spend any time on my business. If I am feeling inspired I work to change the website, add new content, send out direct mail, etc. I’m in graduate school and honestly that takes up most of my time. The more time I put into my business though, the better the sales.
2. Testing your muse: Tim recommends testing via Adwords which I didn’t actually do. If you searched “emergency kits” you’ll see that there are a lot of competing sellers so I figured that someone was buying. The term “emergency kits” gets well over 2,000 searches per month as did a few different related search terms so I just decided to go for it. If I knew what I knew now, I would have asked my manufacturers how much they were selling each year so I could get a better idea of the limit of my market. The market is there for my product, but smaller than I had anticipated to split between me and my competition.
3. Profit: I make about 20% off each sale – which I then throw into testing out new marketing ideas. If I also knew what I know now, I would have picked a product with a better profit margin so I could have a really effective affiliate sales program – there just isn’t enough profit to offer a compelling program.
4. Launching your business with the help of PR – I’m happy to say that I have received some great PR – Tim Ferriss of course, but actually last week I was on Martha Stewart’s site. PR gives you tremendous upsurges in traffic, but in my case at least, no sales. I wouldn’t hold on tight to the dream of PR to solve your problems, instead focus on getting your product to come up on search or reaching out to your target market in whatever way is the model for your business. To whoever mentioned it in the comments – yes, it really is all about the marketing – at least for my business.
Good luck everyone – and just do it – start small and pull the expectation off your muse to be a success. If you’re feeling stuck, view your first muse as a test and tell yourself the second muse will be your real business. There is so much valuable learning that occurs when you start your first muse. Get started and don’t be afraid to fail.
Thanks Tim for featuring my business!
Amy
March 10th, 2011
8:10 pm
Thanks Amy!
March 8th, 2011
12:44 pm
I am reading the appropriate parts of the book and will be starting the diet on Monday, March 14th. My question is is it ok to change your cheat day by 1 day occassionally, like if you schedule for Sunday, but need it Saturday, will it hurt the diet or cause a problem losing weight.
March 8th, 2011
12:46 pm
I agree with the user who suggested you add some of the failed attempts. I don’t think it would hinder your sucess since you’ve done a phenomenal job showing us the great possibilities. But then again I’m not the millionaire marketing master!
At the very least, a blog post about the common f-ups of the failures you’ve learned about would be helpful. Thanks for all you’ve done Tim.
March 8th, 2011
3:25 pm
My question is about outsourcing at the beginning – I have a great idea for a web based product/service that requires web design/development…two skills I don’t have. I’ve looked at eLance and oDesk and see there are lots of people on there, but how to I get started working with someone with out them “stealing” my idea and executing it on their own? Do you have them sign a NDA with a non-compete clause? Any insight would be very helpful.
March 15th, 2011
6:17 am
An NDA would work. Also, I recommend “splurging” on a good lawyer – preferably a patent attorney (for trademarking, copyrighting). The fees will add up quickly, but it is well worth it to cover your investment and avoid potentially costly mistakes. My lawyer saved me from a potential nightmare with a contracted person who hadn’t planned to hold up his part of the signed contract. He also helped with packaging wording that would hold up in court, etc. Lawyers lend legitimacy to your project and can resolve issues faster – which gives you more time to focus on your muse.
I have used both Elance and word-of-mouth for design/web development recommendations. I intentionally outsourced from the beginning too. Always ask for a portfolio and choose based on quality of work, not cost. Cheap work costs more in the long term.
Lastly – it’s not too likely someone in a completely different field will steal your idea. I takes a considerable amount of dedication to see a muse come to fruition. If someone tries, they’ll have to catch up to you. But I understand, I kept my project a secret for a while because I was worried about surprise competition with better funding.
March 8th, 2011
6:22 pm
These are great case studies. I would love to hear how much people end up investing in their muses to get them started as it sounds like some seem to have stronger means to self fund.
March 8th, 2011
7:16 pm
Hey Tim,
I notice that you have had a few of these posts that refer back to your teaching in the 4HWW. I started my business following your rules and words and am doing great. I would love to share what I did and all the info associated. Let me know if you’d like to hear more. :)
March 8th, 2011
7:37 pm
@Nate – I started programming when I was 12, and was just finishing up my degree in computer science when I started MTH. Although, frankly, I learned very little useful programming skills in school – I think you’re better off learning it on your own, if you’re interested. I was also working full-time as a programmer for a small company during the first few years of the business. If you don’t have any programming background, and don’t want to learn, you’re probably going to have to outsource that. But it doesn’t have to be super pricey. I don’t recommend bringing on a programming “partner”.
@Todd – Yes, I could run the company for less. But then it either wouldn’t grow as much, or I’d have to do more work. My main expenses include two full-time programmers, a customer support team, bloggers, seo help, hosting/servers, and marketing (which could be as high as you want).
March 9th, 2011
8:39 am
Hey! @Brandon Pearce
Elaborate on why you don’t recommend bringing on a programming “partner”.
Thanks.
March 9th, 2011
10:10 am
DynastyDC: I can’t speak for Brandon, but my guess is that bringing on a partner for their tech skills costs more (in both dollars and in control) than hiring or contracting for the same skills.
March 9th, 2011
10:47 am
@DynastyDC – Programming is something you can outsource. Why pay a programmer x% of your company forever, when you can pay someone $x when you need work done? And how will you guarantee they’ll put in the time and effort necessary to get the job done in the startup phrase, when they’re not getting paid much? And what if they want to take your company in a different direction than you had envisioned?
I recommend avoiding partnerships overall – the risks outweigh the benefits and it’s rare to have one work out well. If you do decide to do a partnership, be sure to get a contract written up first outlining what happens if there’s a “breakup”, and make sure you’re happy with it.
March 9th, 2011
10:58 am
@DynastyDC
The reason why you don’t bring anybody on as a “partner” can be summed up in one word:
Ownership!
To quote Felix Dennis, ownership isn’t the most important thing.
It’s the only thing!
You don’t “partner” to realize your ideas and vision.
You hire (outsource) others to help you realize your ideas and vision.
By partnering, you give up absolute control – control of the company, control of the idea(s) and their implementation, control of the vision, control of the strategy, etc.
It’s no longer “your” company, but “our” company.
Things will change, for better or worse…
Change is probably good, but it;s better if you own as much as possible.
With 100% ownership, you can be open-minded, cooperative, and receptive to changs and new ideas, but you’re still the ultimate decision maker.
There can be many assistants in the kitchen, but only one executive chef.
March 9th, 2011
4:33 am
I used the principles in the four hour work week to create my muse business, I now make something like $40,000 a week and work 4 hours a week, I am not telling you about my product because I do not want any competition.
rule 1 …. keep shtum :)
March 10th, 2011
4:38 pm
Awesome!
March 15th, 2011
8:14 pm
Care to share how you do initial testing whether new markets are worth putting in the effort to test further? If I tried making even a basic website with sales copy and setting up adwords campaigns to get traffic for even just the top 1% of my ideas I’d need another 72 hours in the day, every day… and I *know* how to do both these things quickly already!
March 9th, 2011
8:33 am
hey TIM great books.I have a question about the tabat training ,you say 14 sets instead of 8 is 14 the way to go.im not looking for mistakes in your book.just want to know if its a typo.i do high sets at times so i do 10 or 12 sets love it and love your books.please dont take this as me being a dick.cool thanks mark
March 9th, 2011
11:03 am
These guys have the right idea in that picking one great idea in a small niche and going for it. I think a lot of people fail because they don’t do the necessary research before diving into something.
March 9th, 2011
11:12 am
@Brandon Pearce / @Tom W
Thank you, well noted.
March 9th, 2011
4:13 pm
Question: The 4 Hour Body, recommends cottage cheese and also cream for coffee instead of milk, and your explanation was because they do not contain whey. But you also referred to protein shake use. It seems like all the protein powders contain whey, What’s up with Whey? Have you found a non-whey protein supplement.
March 15th, 2011
8:18 pm
There are loads of non whey protein powders. Personally I love Sun Warrior (I’m not connected to them in any way), but there are so many out there it’s ridiculous.
March 9th, 2011
4:16 pm
Hey Tim,
Great book, hey man, what do you think about Navy beans? I’m pretty much eating Pinto beans on Mondays, Lima beans on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and wondering if I can fit Navy beans in on Thursdays and Fridays? Also, is it cool if I eat salsa?
March 9th, 2011
4:56 pm
Awefully inspiring !!!
I have myself just had the guts to get out and start my own muse. Partly, thanks to Tim’s book! I have marked so many pages and am re-reading it constantly ;) My muse is called tokyorag and is all about Japan-inspired contemporary fashion accessories. Welcome to check it out :)
@ Tim: You as frequent traveller could need the passport holder ;) Let me know and I send you one.
March 9th, 2011
10:23 pm
Tim, if you could address the ettiquette surrounding initiating joint ventures and perhaps include a few template emails, I know I could substantially benefit from it and I am hoping others could too. Thanks in advance.
March 10th, 2011
12:37 am
I don’t like the articles where Tim outsources his content .
And I’m a reader who really feels this blog has some good info, as opposed to “contributors” who just post to get clicks
March 10th, 2011
1:15 am
This is a great article. I’m just getting into IM in the mens self improvement niche. I love seeing how my work pays off. No bosses!
March 10th, 2011
1:25 am
Just posting my response to a post here that should cover many of the questions people have been writing about. Please excuse my somewhat hasty and poorly written responses as i am not a fan of expressing myself via the written word and i’m trying to at least keep to a four hour work day heheh
‘Sam’ on the blog 4hww:
[...] 1. Design – Did you design the bag yourself or did you have to hire a freelance product designer/company and you just gave them the details of your idea? Did the designer work for a one-time flat fee? How different did the final product turn out compared to when you first thought of the idea?
I designed it myself mostly but with some input from friends at the gym and my friend that made the photoshop mockup. They all got a free bag for the help :)
2. Was it costly to have a prototype made? You mentioned you assumed the odds and ends would be taken care of on the final product run. Does this mean that no second prototype was made after giving feedback on the first prototype? Would it have been an option to have them make a second prototype before the final production run?
The prototypes were free except shipping costs but some companies want to charge you for each step, yet still if working in China this isn’t much, perhaps $50 per prototype plus $40 shipping. We made about 3 prototypes before the first full run.
3. You mentioned you have distributors in other countries now. Does your product ship to them from the manufacturer or from you?
I try to time it so that my manufacturer ships directly when they are about to ship me a batch anyway. This saves money by not having to pay import shipping and taxes before I send them back out and it saves a bit of carbon as well.
4. Were you able to easily negotiate a minimum quantity order from the manufacturer? Since you used Alibaba, I’m guessing you worked with a manufacturer in China? Did you visit them or was it easy to stay local and get the product developed through correspondence?
I have been lucky to find manufacturers that deal with small orders but they charge more per unit for this luxury. I have never been to the manufacturing site for any of my products that are made either here in the US or in China. This sometimes leads to miscommunications and quality issues but I like to think that in the modern age of email, video conferencing etc., that this is old fashioned and a waste of jet fuel. I prefer to stay home with my dog rather then take 15 hour plane flights.
5. You mentioned you wish you had shopped around for a better importer. This part confuses me a bit. I thought that YOU were the importer. Since you were working with a manufacturer on developing this product, I assumed you placed the order with them to ship the goods to you. Who is this third-party importer you are referring to and where did you find them?
When you import goods there is a lot of paperwork and processes that you have to understand. You can use services like FedEx but it is very expensive, nearly $5 per pound, but they will get it to your door in about a week. Shipping things by sea is much cheaper coming in around $1 per pound or less, it takes about 6 weeks with this method but to me that’s worth it. With either method you have taxes, customs fees etc.. There is also much to learn about customs codes and other things that must be documented and filed with customs in order to get your shipment released. You can learn the process yourself but it’s much easier and more time effective to have an import company take care of this. My first company was expensive and sloppy. They didn’t file paperwork properly and I still had to pickup the goods at the local port. My new company just gets things done right and gets the good right to my door for less money.
6. Lastly, it states that it took three years before the idea struck. In those three years, what part of the endeavor took the longest?
–
I’d say working on making sure the product was up to spec. as far as quality goes was the hardest and most time consuming part. This is partially because we stuck with a manufacturer for 2 years that just wasn’t quite working but we were afraid to move on.
I hope this helps and I apologize for the lack of detail but I’m very busy now and I really want to get off my computer to watch the Daily Show :)
-Chris
March 11th, 2011
3:17 am
Chris,
Thank you SO much for replying to my post. Your feedback is very informative. I understand how busy you must be and at the same time placing value for free time so I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to respond.
That’s so cool that you were able to design the bag yourself. Not only must you have saved some money on that task, but I’m sure it must feel quite nice to be able to hold a product in your hands that is so much “yours”. I’ve considered designing my own idea, but part of me feels that getting a different perspective on the product from someone with expertise in design could be helpful. This part for me is yet to be determined. Glad to see that it worked out for you.
Great idea on having your supplier ship to overseas customers when they’re about to ship to you. Just curious, who handles the shipping paperwork for shipments from overseas manufacturer to customers outside the US?
Thanks for clearing up the question on the importer. I see now that you were referring to the customs broker. Yeah, I definitely have no desire to deal with all that paperwork. I think that would get me off track and lose my focus on the “fun” stuff, like developing product! If its not a problem, and its ok with the forum rules, can you pass on the name of your customs broker? I’ve heard good things about Expeditors International which has been around for a long time and has many office locations. I’m not at the point of having products shipped yet, but it would be nice to have a recommended person on file.
That’s amazing that you were able to go through the whole ordeal of developing a product without actually visiting the factory. Good to hear that enough could still be conveyed through email, phone and video conference. Do you think development would have been quicker if you did go overseas?
Thanks again, Chris, for the info you’ve provided and for your story. If you don’t get a chance to reply to my follow up questions, no worries! You’ve been very helpful already.
Cheers!
June 13th, 2011
7:46 pm
I am a designer with a keen eye for detail. I am from London and understand the Western Market, but I am living and working in Hong Kong for one of the regions largest electronic companies, living here allows me access to Shenzhen within 50 minuites, If have been conciously on the look out for a muse, but have not yet found anything appropriate/legal that would provide me with enough profit yet.
If anyone is looking to manufacture in China we should connect to discuss possibilities of collaborating on the project.
March 10th, 2011
1:38 am
oh and for those of you worried about products being copied by working with overseas manufacturers i want to remind you that it doesn’t matter where you get your things made, they can always be copied to an extent and it’s not a good reason to keep your dreams from being produced.
keep on mind you are not just the product you make. most innovative companies will always struggle with late comers copying much of their work but you have to just keep moving and making things better. your customers will be loyal if you are good to them and they’ll pay good money to know they supported real deal.
which reminds me i want to stress that customer care is huge. i treat my customers like my friends even at the cost of great time and money. in turn i now have quite a following of very loyal, enthusiastic, and understanding customers. i once near shed a tear when being compared to Zappos customer care :)
March 10th, 2011
8:19 pm
Chris,
Congratulations on your success and thank you for elaborating on your post and experiences.
Justice
March 10th, 2011
7:10 am
Another amazing post Tim, really enjoying the mini series on Muses! Its not often you get to look @ someone successful and see not only the success but also their failures and really LEARN from their experiences. This makes 9+ broken down and alot more covered in general, really man, thanks for these post, they’re instrumental in keeping focused.
March 10th, 2011
7:47 am
Thanks for the case studies.
One big piece of info that seems to be missing is startup costs. How much are people spending up front and how long until they get it back?
March 10th, 2011
3:40 pm
Maybe I am late to the party, but I would like to see top 3 Muses of the week, or at worst, a month. Nothing like seeing success stories to get the brain ticking.
March 10th, 2011
4:37 pm
Brett, JV instructional materials – The best I’ve had recommended to me is Jay Abrahams.
Google… Jay Abraham Joint Venture Materials
Hope this helps,
GB
March 12th, 2011
4:36 pm
Glenn,
Thank you. I appreciate the guidance.
Brett
March 10th, 2011
10:17 pm
@Dan O – I had basically no startup costs since I did all the work myself. But it took hundreds of hours of my own blood, sweat, and tears before I was making enough to hire help. Cheap, but hard, and definitely worth it!
March 10th, 2011
10:52 pm
Dan,
It’s mostly your own hours as Brandon said.
But for me it was about 3k in the first 100 units plus about 1k shipping. The rest was just a simple website setup (maybe 6 hours of work) and around 40 hours of planning/design. The start was much less time consuming then then things are now. At this point I could spend 8+ hours a day because there is always something that you could be doing to improve things, but it’s good to know when to put the computer down and enjoy some r&r.
If you guys didn’t see Tim’s talk at Samovar about Zen and the Art of Life Management you really should. It’s long but so useful for us self employed types that tend to get obsessed and start tying our self worth to our companies.
March 19th, 2011
12:03 pm
Chris,
First of all, thank you so much for sharing with us! Your real-life information is incredibly helpful.
1. I am very confused with your start-up costs. You write that it cost you @ $3K for 100 units + @ $1K shipping. You are selling those bags on your site for $99. How were you able to make any profit? It seems as though you’d be losing money.
2. How long did it take from when you started contacting the manufacturers to having a finished product to sell?
And about how much time did it take for you to receive your fist prototype?
Right now I am researching the logistics of 3 muses; two physical products which will require manufacturers and drop shipping and one educational product which I will create on my own. I’m trying to figure out which I can financially take on right now as it seems that start up costs could be rather high (to an unemployed person as myself!). I wish I were a programmer and could create something as Brandon did and recommends….they do seem to be the most profitable and generate repeat/ more secure and long-lasting business with the least amount of financial risk.
March 11th, 2011
11:44 am
Hello everyone. I need some advice on developing my “Muse”. Usually after about a week or two of researching my Muse I become discouraged. I begin the preliminary research and get excited about developing the idea then suddenly I find a very similar product or service. At this point I begin to wonder if my idea is really worth working on if it has already been tried. I’ve done the same with writing books – I write the first page for each chapter then start to get discouraged when I find whole websites devoted to my ideas. Does anyone have any suggestions for maintaining momentum when developing a Muse. Also, Is finding a similar product or service necessarily a bad thing when developing a muse?
March 11th, 2011
12:12 pm
I enjoyed reading the stories of these muse generating people it’s motivating to me as I work on my first muse as well. Should be out in a couple of weeks and I am very excited to finish the process more than make money. I think once the process for launching this first muse is done I will know so much more and be in a better position to create and dig into different muse (or is it muses?) that I can then expect to bring more money. Tim your book 4 hour work week played a large part in the direction my muse took. Prior to listening to your book in CD form I had only a vague idea of what I wanted my “muse launch” to be like. Upon finishing the book a couple dozen times I knew exactly what I needed to do and so far have spent a great deal of late nights working on it but have spent only the cost of the website design and have really put some of your tips to use. Thanks so much I look forward to your articles. Party on!
March 12th, 2011
3:17 pm
You have to love what you are doing in order to succeed in business and this interview is a great example of that. Good luck to all of you trying to make their idea work!
March 13th, 2011
1:21 pm
Bill. I think in that case the question i do you offer something the others don’t? A new perspective, better service, etc. For me if there are more hemp products on the market it may hurt me in competition somewhat but overall it’s a big world and when another enters the market it helps us all by increasing market size and education.
One thing I promised myself was that my company would never make anything that others already make unless we could improve on some aspect, that’s why we don’t make boxing gloves and such, I can’t make them from hemp or other environmentally friendly materials and I can’t make them better then the competition so they will be more durable and hence waste less, so we don’t make them. But if there is something I can improve or even just serve a new area of the market I’ll do it. Such as making hemp pants, so many offer hemp pants already but our market and style is different as we go beyond appealing to hippies and green people. We actually try to appeal to your average person that just wants strong durable gear, the fact that it’s environmentally friendly too is a bit of a background trick that we don’t highlight.
So don’t be discouraged so long as you have something different to offer in some way, even if it’s just having better customer service then the next guy.
March 13th, 2011
10:50 pm
Hey Chris,
Thanks for sharing so much here. It’s really appreciated! There seems to be a bit of a theme of people I’ve seen with successful muses just ignoring the testing phase altogether and going on a hunch (eg, see the post by Amy “Ready Set Go Kits” Sandoz above). I’m curious what kind of testing you did before deciding to push ahead with this?
By the way, it’s also a huge relief to see someone making hemp clothes that aren’t *^%##! yoga wear for a change! Would love to see more images / video of the clothes actually being worn on your site (so you can see how they hang).
March 13th, 2011
1:27 pm
I suspect of the three cases cited only musicteachershelper is profitable. Note too the significant time from project inception to generating a meaningful revenue stream. We are talking years here, several years, not months, for a few thousand dollars of revenue, and some of the case examples appear to be very labor intensive. I think for persons wishing to develop a less labor intensive muse an information product or the software as a service (SAAS) model is the way to go. Anything else seems like a full time job to me. Though the muse process was greatly over simplified I think the reality is that it is very challenging and a lot of up front and ongoing work or we would all be millionaires and successful business owners and not ’9 to 5ers’. Hope I am not pouring cold water on anyones dreams – just injecting a does of reality here.
March 13th, 2011
7:11 pm
very inspiring……makes me think about my own situation. Thanks!
March 13th, 2011
11:17 pm
These articles are great, I just read every reply because the feedback was excellent. I learned so much especially on the physical product side about manufacturing, importing, startup costs (for a basic physical product around 5000, at least I think), etc.
I am actually in college, really hard to start businesses, because I had like no time being an engineer. But I started one, kinda failed/on its last leg (I’ll write up a report for the forums in a few weeks when I confirm its dead,kinda paranoid about people taking my ideas and all). I have like 5 friends working on it (paid). It’s full scale launch is in two weeks, but due to core problems I think it will fail (I really tried every approach), tons of demand too. I really hope it works, anyway on the forms, or if Tim requests it, lol.
I’ll probably do a physical product business next. But just to let people know to, even if your business fails, you still learn a lot, technically,emotionally,managerially,etc.
Just go for it, although try to do a lower cost idea first as you will make lots of mistakes, especially the first time. Another thing, it is a drastic roller coaster ride, the better the idea potential the steeper the emotional peaks and valleys. Some days I was feeling like a god when something was working, the next day I was felt like the world was about to explode. Over time you kinda get used to it, lol, and then it is just like you see a problem you attack it and then move on.
I will admit seeing how long it took these businesses to stick, I am a bit intimidated. For my first business, I have been only at it for like 6 months, one month partial/test launch, 2 weeks to full scale, but it is kinda a very unique situation. Its gonna go out with a boom, or maybe even start with one.
Questions:
Well best of luck to everyone, and by the way to the original writers, What made you determine that your idea was brilliant enough to stick to, even though it wasn’t catching on in the marketplace (at least at first)?/Did you ever think, ok it is time to cut my losses?
I personally know successful entrepreneurs and a lot of their success came from failing multiple times they know/learned when to jump ship on their bad ideas without wasting too much time.
Did anyone bother getting a patent or even just a provisional patent?
Anything I should read in terms of manufacturing and import/export/distribution type books? Because that is the one sector not covered heavily on this blog or 4hrwk wk.
Thanks best of luck on everyone elses ideas.
PS-By the way, having a partner can be great but hiring is usually a better option at first cause many people have horrible work ethics when they are in control of when+how they can work, even if they get good grades or happen to work good in the workplace, that is not necessarily how they will act when they are the leader/co founder. I had one dude (hired thankfully), straight A s in a hard major, really loved the idea wanted to invest as a partner, I said no not great timing, so he worked for me a bit. Whenever I needed him he was drunk or high, I mean it is college, but seriously I can’t have my associates incapacitated 24/7 . Had to fire him, nicely of course since he was a friend.
Anyway, hope it turns out good.
March 14th, 2011
5:47 pm
Sam,
As far as product design I do like designing things myself but right now I am looking into finding a designer that understand military style gear design and manufacturing. I’m not even sure what that job title would be so I am struggling to find someone actually. Designing the PGB was easy, backpacks not so much, in fact we borrowed a few elements from other backpacks to make ours which I’m not thrilled about but it’s ok for now.
My manufacturer only ships to my overseas distributors but if I get a direct international order I still ship USPS from here for that. BTW FedEx home delivery is the best for inside US shipping over 2 LBS but USPS is by far the cheapest for international orders.
My customs broker is Morrison Express Co. they rock and if you use them please let them know I sent you.
If it wasn’t for the plane ride I would like to visit the factory someday mostly because I’d like to see China but I don’t know how much it would really help in speeding up development or quality checking unless I stayed there for months at a time. I suspect the only thing it really does is get your manufacturers to like you more since you get some face time.
Monkill, thanks for that, I love rebranding hemp so it can be taken away from the hippie roots and appreciated by a broader spectrum of humans. As for testing I basically tested the prototype bags myself for a few months and that was it. I figured if I liked it more like me would also.
Hope that covers the questions, thanks to all for the kind words, I’m glad to help here all I can.
March 15th, 2011
8:54 pm
Thanks for taking the time to reply!
So you had a full website and prototypes made before doing any online research on whether there was any demand for an MMA bag? When I use Google traffic estimator on phrases like MMA bag and even MMA gear it suggests almost no traffic at all (17 clicks/day globally for the #1 spot on mma gear and zero for mma bag). I’m still trying to figure out if there’s a rough, fast, 80/20 way of deciding whether a market is even worth the time to build a test site with sales copy and an adwords campaign for (I’ve wasted a lot previously with test sites that got zero interest). IE I’m wondering exactly how you “realized that making a high quality hemp bag for MMA enthusiasts would fill a gap in the market.”
Thanks again!
March 15th, 2011
11:49 am
I have a question regarding researching / choosing your “muse” prior to looking for a distributor/ manufacturer: 4HWW only suggests looking up niche magazines but does not mention checking traffic on google adwords PPC prior to “selecting” and “testing” the muse. Has anyone used google adwords to test keyword traffic as a factor in deciding whether or not there will be demand for your product? I’m curious because my muse has very low keyword traffic and I’m not sure if this is a good or bad thing. Any help would be appreciated.
March 15th, 2011
8:58 pm
I’ve tried this, but not had much success with it *yet* thus all my testing related questions here! I’m starting to have a hunch that Adwords traffic estimator is stupidly conservative (maybe they assume the average advertiser writes awful copy). I do think this method has promise, but I’d listen to someone who’s gotten it to work rather than someone who hasn’t (yet!) ;P
March 15th, 2011
10:24 pm
monkill,
for me i simply went on the old fashioned idea that if i liked the bag and my gym buddies liked the bag, then there would be others that felt the same. i did use the keyword tool before i started adwords on google but i only spend $20 a month on that since most of our biz is generated through message boards, gear review blogs and direct promotions.
i think the 4hww ideas are very good and useful for many products but in my case it wasn’t just a matter of what would sell well, it was more a matter of what would make me happy and hopefully enough others to support me doing that thing full time…the rest of our success is a bonus as i see it.
i’m sure that someday i will be where Tim was with his first biz and part of this will be due to me not following the 4hww suggestions (although just knowing this may keep it from ever becoming as bad as his situation was) so don’t necessarily take my advice as anything very wise, it’s just one way and so far, for me it beats the hell out of my old job :)
March 16th, 2011
4:50 pm
I agree with Chris. I didn’t do any keyword or Adwords testing or anything when I started my businesses (didn’t even know that stuff existed until later). My rule of thumb is, if there are a handful of people you know who would buy your product, then chances are you’ll be able to find a good number more, with all the billions that exist in the world. You just have to know how to reach them. Google searches aren’t the only way people can learn about your product. You may not get millions of customers, but pretty much anybody can get a few hundred.
As for avoiding failure, simply don’t give up. You only fail once you’ve quit.
March 17th, 2011
12:29 am
Tim,
You are absolutely brilliant! Thank you for what you have to done!
Mike
March 17th, 2011
1:53 pm
@Chris, Monkiii, Brandon
Thanks for sharing your thoughts in this blog. Your writings are helping a LOT of people that aren’t even posting in it but that are following it like crazy (me included).
Chris, what’s new in the ‘Daily Show’? :D – your product really inspired me because, as you well stated, this product it’s just about making money, but doing something you like to do and that is related to your personal life.
For me, i feel the exact same thing with my muse. There are practically 0 (zero) searches for it, but due to the fact that I know the market for looong time, I know it will sell and I know people will buy it. It’s kinda of a ‘missing link’ in my niche that will certainly be copied.
That leaves me with a question. On Alibaba, if you have to custom made a product, and try to find a manufacturer yourself you will be losing sooooo many time with back and forth e-mail (it happened to me) just to find out that the manufacturers didn’t understand what you wanted in the first place (although it was pretty explicit that I wanted to modify something they sell to obtain different characteristics they kept trying to sell me their own products :S mind boggling).
So you are almost obliged to fill a ”buying lead’ or ‘RFQ – Request for Quotation” form where you expose all the ‘in’s and out’s’ of your product, materials, photographies of prototypes, etc so that ‘Alibaba’ can match specific manufacturers from which you will get quotations.
Although it makes pure sense, I’m terribly afraid that my idea gets copied as soon as the RFQ reaches the asians mail servers. Am I being paranoid? What’s the workaround in this situation? Is it even worth it to patent or register the idea? As Chris told about his gear, “if someone wants to copy your product, they will copy it, they just can’t copy your logo” which I know to be true.
Thanks again on your thoughts guys.
March 17th, 2011
9:24 pm
[...] my business was highlighted by Tim Ferriss on his popular blog, I’ve received over a dozen e-mails from people who are thinking about or [...]
March 19th, 2011
12:35 pm
Ze,
Wish I had better advice for you but it sounds like your product is more complicated than a bag. I’m sure there must be some way to protect yourself with a non disclosure agreement but enforcing that in China without big legal power might be tough.
March 19th, 2011
1:16 pm
Hey Tim, I just want to thank you for the brilliance of the muse paradigm. This thread is a great testament of its effectiveness. I recently released a self-help video series, easily the most fun and gratifying thing I have ever done, and it never would have happened without “The Four Hour Workweek.” The book (and your blog) consistently gave me the business-oriented inspiration needed to see my project through to completion . Thanks again for turning conventional product-designing wisdom on its head, and give me a holla if you want a free copy of the video. Cheers.
March 21st, 2011
8:35 am
Thanks Chris,
I’ve been heavily searching the web and abusing of the patience of my mobile contacts and I finally got to something.
For what I’ve learned it’s almost mandatory for you to protect your invention as it will protect it and will automatically grant it like being yours. This means that no one will be able to sell it, import it, wholesale it, etc without your written permission to do so.
If they do so disregarding your authorization then you may sue them (and your 100% guaranteed to win).
It may be obvious to most but the truth is I’ve been in forums all over the world and no one seemed to have (or didn’t wanted to share) this bit of information, although being also in the 4hww book :/
March 21st, 2011
10:56 am
Chris,
First of all, thank you so much for sharing with us! Your real-life information is incredibly helpful.
1. I am very confused with your start-up costs. You write that it cost you @ $3K for 100 units + @ $1K shipping. You are selling those bags on your site for $99. How were you able to make any profit? It seems as though you’d be losing money.
2. How long did it take from when you started contacting the manufacturers to having a finished product to sell?
And about how much time did it take for you to receive your fist prototype?
Right now I am researching the logistics of 3 muses; two physical products which will require manufacturers and drop shipping and one educational product which I will create on my own. I’m trying to figure out which I can financially take on right now as it seems that start up costs could be rather high (to an unemployed person as myself!). I wish I were a programmer and could create something as Brandon did and recommends….they do seem to be the most profitable and generate repeat/ more secure and long-lasting business with the least amount of financial risk.
March 21st, 2011
1:07 pm
@Nicole
I know it wasn’t directed to me, but just to point it out. If he bought 100 units for $3K + $1K shipping. That equal $4K. If he sells 100 units for $99, that is $9.9K – $4K = $5.9K profit
March 21st, 2011
3:36 pm
My apologies to Chris and thank you Jeff W. for clearing that up. I have redefined the saying “there are no stupid questions, only stupid people.” to “stupid people ask stupid questions!” Honestly, I am not dim witted, I clearly am in need of rest and to take a break from my muse creation.
My head has been spinning trying to get information from manufacturers and determine if they are in fact the true manufacturer or simply the supplier/ and or distributor.
March 22nd, 2011
4:23 am
haha ^^ I second that Nicole
March 22nd, 2011
10:48 pm
well Jeff helped out with #1 there although I admit that if i had a proper staff and office this might be very little unless we increase the volume of sales drastically. imagine how little we make on our wholesale orders with this setup. but hemp isn’t cheap and i wanted it to be accessible for more than the rich.
as far as how long i think it was about 6 months, the first prototype came within two weeks and the next two soon after. a few months of testing and we placed our first order.
March 22nd, 2011
11:12 pm
Thank you for getting back to me Chris.
I am really losing my mind here on Alibaba because I’m noticing that many of their “manufacturers” are actually B2B suppliers. Globalresources is just as bad. Almost 6 hours of research online today to have found so far only 1 actual manufacturer of the product I want to improve and three resellers. I’ve emailed them each (with my company email- however the website is not yet constructed so I’m hoping that doesn’t count against me for now), with my questions and am really hoping that they will respond to me as I don’t have much choice in who else to contact. My tenacity will conquer! If they don’t write me back…I’ll call and call and call…or rethink my materials! My product will either be plastic or acrylic. We’ll see who responds to me.
I think it is amazing of you to have a greater good in mind with your pricing. On behalf of all those who would like to see more “eco” friendly products at more affordable prices, I thank you! In the long run, I could charge a small fortune for what I’m trying to develop but the point is so that people like me (current financial status = crappy!) can afford something so cool!
Keep on inspiring Chris :D
March 24th, 2011
3:10 pm
Nicole,
I feel your frustrations. I am currently looking for new manufacturers and it’s very hard to tell who actually own the factory and who is just a middleman. Sometimes they have company videos on Alibaba that help where they show you the factory but I suppose even these could be a lie. Just be persistent and you will find something. Also maybe we need to suggest a quality rating and review system for Alibaba, it would really help those of us looking to see testimonials from other real customers.
As for prices, I’ll keep doing what I can, the trick is maintaining quality of gear and my quality of life…having a proper savings account would be nice someday heheh
Good luck :)
March 24th, 2011
5:59 pm
Chris, don’t want to be a dick but arnt these just military tactical backpacks?? Just repackaged with a marketing twist?? http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=16700 …All it is , is just a repackaged idea but selling it to a diff market…
March 25th, 2011
1:12 pm
Alex,
Hmm yes could be interpreted as a dick thing to say but perhaps it’s our fault for not making the marketing clear.For one thing we are using hemp which is not just a marketing twist, it’s a fundamental change.
We also make other things besides bags and the lineup is growing. We make gear for smart green minded people that also want top notch (military) quality. The idea is that you don’t have to be a hippie to enjoy the great benefits of hemp and you don’t have to be a soldier to appreciate strong, durable gear.
March 25th, 2011
9:21 am
Alex,
The entire point is to either create or differentiate. I know Chris said earlier that he prefers to design his own but in one instance he was unable to do so. His differentiation is that his product is made of hemp which has various benefits and it is to a new market. One great thing about commerce is that products and ideas can be and should be moved laterally throughout markets. I know it’s a bit of a stretch of an example, but I think it suits my point. The internet was originally a military product and yet someone saw the benefits it would have to the public and brought it to us. That’s business baby! WIFM. (What’s in it for me- the way the customer thinks) Find your market and give them what they need and want whether it’s out there already or you invent it yourself!
Chris,
I think putting together a list of manufacturers would be a great idea. Pooling what’s worked and hasn’t worked will be a great resource and time saver for many people who are in the same boat. I don’t however trust Alibaba or Globalsources to include customer reviews as they already have star ratings and gold memberships which really haven’t been totally accurate. In my research, I’ve also found that many companies on these sites are total scams and will email you whatever you want to hear. They could easily post dummie testimonials and I believe they would! Perhaps we can have something for 4HWW only? Maybe as a thread in the forum?
On another note, I just got this in my groupon today and thought it was an amazing business idea!!! They are not associated with 4HWW but I’d love to hear their case study. It seems like a great example and reminds me of the Ready Set Go Kits. It’s called Spoonful of Comfort Chicken Soup and it sells “Get Well Soon” care packages. What a great idea. It certainly will generate repeat business. One last thought and inspiration to me is Send a Ball. This idea generates repeat business and probably has a fantastic markup as it’s just a cheap plastic ball and weighs next to nothing to ship!
Thank you again to everyone out there sharing your stories and offering advice and answering questions.
March 25th, 2011
2:34 pm
Thank you so much for sharing this real life case scenarios. Definitely helps.
Hameed
March 25th, 2011
4:08 pm
Hey Chris! In your case, did you get a patent or it is not even necessary??? Thanks!!
March 25th, 2011
5:07 pm
Nicole, good post. Btw I think that have a ball idea was on Shark Tank, I love that show. I’ll see about adding a thread to the 4hww forum about manufacturers. The real problem I keep forgetting is that no one wants you to know who they use.
Jim, in the apparel and gear biz I have been told you really can’t patent much unless it’s very specific, in fact copying is rampant for this reason. So I’m ignoring it for now other than trademarking my biz name and such. I’m not really worried about someone copying me anyway, i can’t just be like Apple if that happens :)
March 27th, 2011
7:29 am
3 janvier 2011: je m’installe dans un site géographique génial en France dans l’Aveyron pour travailler sans être dérangé, préparer mes futures muses et partir en Voyage en Turquie et Chili dans les 6 mois.
Pourtant je n’ai acheté la semaine de 4 H qu’hier 26 mars.
Ce livre correspond à tous points de vue à ma philosophie de vie que je n’ai jamais eu le temps de pouvoir mettre en pratique.
Merci Tim.
Dans 6 mois je remets un commentaire.
March 27th, 2011
1:37 pm
I see that the common factor is that they all trade product for money, and not time for money, hoorah !
March 27th, 2011
2:10 pm
there is always some time involved but the less the better. as i may have said doing this by comparison to my old job video productions (service job) is so much better. i have to thank Tim for reminding me of how bad service job suck time when i asked him if i should start a fight promotion company or stick with just the gear, he suggested to stay away from the fight promotion which was a very good call.
March 29th, 2011
7:00 am
What gets me wondering… is how does one track the revenue/interest a facebook fan page generates? Is it the law of averages, or is there a precise way to measure it?
March 30th, 2011
10:39 am
I really like this post: will it be possible to get more stories?
March 30th, 2011
5:25 pm
Daniel,
FB has a “view insights” option which allows you to see certain things like interactions per month, demographics by location sex age, etc. But for tracking sales I think you would need more, or simple use coupon codes to know where a user came from.
April 3rd, 2011
2:24 am
Heya – has anyone found a really good site / service for doing website mock-ups and wireframes? preferably with a free trial option…
Cheers
Tom
April 13th, 2011
12:45 pm
Hey tom – you can create free wireframes at cacoo.com. The interface is nice too.
April 4th, 2011
1:08 am
I always love these case studies. Really help with the creation and expansion of “muses.”
April 7th, 2011
5:54 pm
It’s interesting to see that the case studies aren’t making millions. In fact, considering the amount of effort and time they’ve put in the ROI is very low.
Very clever of Tim to target the bored middle aged customer in to beleiving his business model works. They say there’s a sucker born every second and his customers are a testament to that.
April 7th, 2011
7:23 pm
RM, that seems a bit rude, have a bad day at your 8 to 5?
I actually see that my company could be making millions and although I look forward to getting there it isn’t my long term goal. The main idea that I think Tim is promoting is to do something you love and make sure you have enough free time to actually enjoy your life. How you see that as failure is beyond me.
Tim’s ideas work quite well if you simply take what is useful to you and discard the rest, it’s not a cookie cutter model.
April 15th, 2011
2:14 pm
Hate to hijack like this, but do you have any suggestions for getting MMA fighter endorsements? I have different product in a similar niche and would seriously benefit from an endorsement but I can’t afford to send a bottle out to 100 fighters.
April 7th, 2011
7:47 pm
Hey RM,
I believe you should try this test:
1. Track number of hours overtime you do at work for a few weeks
2. Divide your annual bonus by annualised result from #1
This gives you your pay rate for the hours worked over and above your standard hours – is it a lot lower than your pay rate for standard hours?
The ROI you have to “beat” is only the answer to number 2, not your normal hourly pay rate.
Or this test (use the same time-scale for pt 1 and 2):
1. How much money does the company you work for make per employee
2. Divide that number by the hours you work
Whats the $ difference between #2 and your pay rate?
The larger that gap is, the more value you have personally that someone else is getting the $’s for (though, of course, some of that value is derived from the company you work for, and the other people that work there)
Both of these figures may give you a different grasp on ROI – for instance, if either one or both calculations make you realise that you become alot worse off (in an economic sense) the exact minute you work over 40 hours a week, then it suddenly gets easier to reach positive ROI on that extra time if you spend it doing something that’s better for you in the longer term .
That something could be a muse, or spending more time with your kids, or getting fitter, or all 3 – I think the point is to be aware of that trade-off, and then make some decisions…
Just at thought…
April 10th, 2011
5:49 am
Superb case studies, thank you. Question: Why is only revenue shown? Revenue is meaningless, it’s profit that should be the focus.
Also, Tim, where are the info product examples?
April 15th, 2011
2:10 pm
I’d love to get my muse up to those levels. How do you get endorsements from MMA fighters without sending to them blindly though? I agree with Datsusara that it’s no good to send out blindly, but no doubt his Eddie Bravo endorsement helped a ton.
April 15th, 2011
9:17 pm
Love the case studies. Need the encouragement.
In the middle of creating a muse now … lots of work and pain to get it
off the ground. Will be worth it …
ever consider doing a post on the top pitfalls in creating the muse?
It seems most people are still on the sidelines when it comes to
creating the muse.
April 18th, 2011
4:04 pm
Steve,
I’d say try networking a bit or even somehow reaching the fighters online via twitter fb etc before mailing them anything. also time helps, i have people mailing me now asking for sponsorships and gear. but it’s tough to get to the top level guys. Good luck :)
April 19th, 2011
3:29 am
Very interesting post, thanks Tim for the fine examples, and big thanks to Chris for the in-depth followup comments! I’m working on a similar project (high end gear bag) but in a different sport niche. Fascinating to see how Chris was able to get the idea up and running!
April 19th, 2011
10:42 am
Glad to help, good luck Brian :)
April 21st, 2011
8:38 pm
I have an idea for a muse, but I’m unsure where to start. Do I start talking to manufacturers to produce the product or do I start talking with wholesalers to see if they would buy the product? This would be for commercial use so I’m assuming they go thru wholesalers, but I haven’t even found that out for sure yet. Also, don’t know about patents and if I should produce it myself or pitch the idea and negotiate a royalty.
Realize this is very vague and decisions probably need to be made on a case by case basis, but just looking for a little feedback.
Anyone have any thoughts?
May 2nd, 2011
1:45 pm
I love this post and seeing everyone niche down. It’s right where I’m stuck. I’m searching for my muse. I’m such an idea person, and I find myself being able to come up with amazing ideas for others but not one that quite works for me. Please keep sharing muse stories!
Thanks so much!
June 1st, 2011
11:10 am
Thank you so much Tim. These case studies are always inspiring. I keep your book by my bedside and read it regularly as I search for my muse. My difficulty has been in narrowing my choices and taking that first frightening step towards the freedom your book describes.
Thank you again,
~Michael
June 2nd, 2011
3:15 pm
Anyone know when Volume 4 is coming??
Love these case studies!
June 13th, 2011
4:21 am
Tim,
I really love these case studies. You should write a book or create a newsletter with all these case studies. Much like you refer to the Harvard Case studies in your book.
I would buy it in a second, and I think thousands of others would as well.
Mark
June 14th, 2011
5:22 pm
Troy, I’d go ahead and get the product made first because no matter who you talk to they want to see it. Unless you think you can get funding just to create it in which case go find your angels first :)
June 19th, 2011
11:21 pm
I could not stop smiling as I read these golden nuggets, thanks for sharing them Tim, now I will go work on mine, so you can showcase it later on. Thanks for starting the fire, now it is my turn (I really like the 4HWW book and your random episode videos with Kevin Rose)
Really man, Thanks!!!!!!!
July 2nd, 2011
6:27 pm
Wow this is awesome. I just recently finished the 4HWW and this is my first time taking a look at the blog. Its cool to see how active it is there.
Chris, way to go man. Thanks for being around to comment on some key issues I think 90% people in muse creation struggle with.
I know for me muse creation is probably the most enjoyable as well as the most difficult thing to do sometimes. Its all about getting that ball rolling!
Good luck everyone and heres to Tim, Cheers!
July 4th, 2011
10:45 am
Thanks Adam. Gratz on finishing the book and joining us here too :)
Hope to hear about your biz someday soon!
July 4th, 2011
2:59 pm
very inspirational post. agree w/ some of the other commentrrs that it’d be cool to see 1. profit versus revenue versus ROI/time investment and 2. how much testing went int to determining this was a winning idea.
really appreciate reading some of the comments from the folks featured in the case study. very valuable information there, i’d say more valuable even than that which is in the case study. both the bags and the kits ideas seemed to forgo testing entirely. i wonder if they just got lucky or if chris is right and if you know that if a couple of people in your immediate circle will buy something then you can certainly find more customers… it is a question of access.
July 11th, 2011
7:33 pm
Hello all,
We just opened up the new Datsusara website so the old links may not work. Check us out at dsgear.com now if you are interested. I’ll try to respond to all of your with emailed in questions soon, I have been busy setting up the store with Shopify :)
-Chris
July 19th, 2011
3:57 pm
Hello all,
First of all, thank you Tim for this really good book I’m really enjoying to read.
Since several months I want to do something to move out of the 9-5, and live my life differently. At the beginning I was just thinking of working (a lot) but at the time which bet suited me (from 5am to 9am, from 4pm to 9pm, or whatever if I want to). Your vision of the “muse” bring me something else, and I really like this idea of automation (build stuff once and leave it live its own life and generate some cash-flow).
Working whenever I want is what I was looking for. Working whenever I want and even much less than I had planned is even much better ;)
I have been a developer (a french one :) ) for 10 years and I have the feeling that my muse might be something link to this developer background (because this is something I know how to do). Since several weeks I’m thinking a lot about my future muse and I’m sure I’ll find something sooner or later ;)
If someone is interested by my computer skills, I’d be happy to participate and to brainstorm on an idea that could be our muse ;)
Thanks again for your great vision Tim ;)
Luc
May 1st, 2012
12:21 pm
Hello again Chris,
So, it’s been a year and I’ve finally come to the point of prototyping my product. While I wait, I’m trying to figure out which merchant site to use and after over an hour chatting with a Shopify representative, who assured me there were no more fees, costs, or services I’d need, I discovered through Volusion that I still need to have a separate credit payment processor. I feel as though I’ve been hosed by salesmen and wanted to ask you- someone who has gone through the trenches, what you use in addition to shopify and if you checked out volusion. Am I correct that you used separate domain registration, web host, shopping cart host (shopify), and credit card payment processor? Are there any other services we need? What if someone’s credit is not so great, could they be denied access to accepting credit cards for their online store? Very very confused w/ all that seems to be needed to sell one product…
July 26th, 2011
7:16 am
I really enjoy your articles on your blog. I decided to unchain myself from the work desk and try and take my fate into my own hands. I would like to start my own business and write a book or two. To that end I started a blog, more to encourage myself and perphaps motivate a person or two. Have a browse sometime when you’re not too busy.
August 7th, 2011
12:59 am
These are great examples, but I would love to see more concrete details especially concerning:
(1) Profit margins and not just revenues, especially with regards to how long it took to reach that profit and how long it was “in the black.”
(2) Detailed steps on how to overcome difficulties/obstacles in establishing the “muse”, especially for beginners/novices. IE. if you know nothing about manufacturing/prototyping and wanted to get an idea off the ground, where/who did you turn to, how long did it take, what problems did you face (and how you overcame them), etc. I understand this may take an entire book onto itself, but even a link to a blog post on your own site (http://phoenixabroad.com/how-to-test-4hww-muse-for-16-dollars-per-month/ is a decent example) would be better than nothing.
Thanks.
August 10th, 2011
12:05 am
Bo Sun,
I get asked that all the time and if anyone wants to do a Skype interview with me on the subject I’ll be happy to go over it again, but if I have to type one more epic email I’m going to lose it.
My main advice is that it’s much easier than you think, especially if you have little to lose (one benefit of starting poor).
December 31st, 2011
11:17 am
@Chris Odell why not just copy paste one of your long emails? Skype is still time…
August 17th, 2011
10:35 pm
Been reading your Engineering a Muse series. So good…. I’m in the process of trying to engineer a couple as I’m VERY passionate about untethering myself from the office desk. I’ll let you know how I get on, in the meantime I’d like to repost this article. Please checkout my site as well.
August 20th, 2011
7:39 am
Truly inspirational. I am only through half the book currently and will soon finish and my mind is blown…a bit overwhelmed ( I think I’ll have to read several more times to fully grasp it.)
I love these case studies. I am hoping that I can duplicate this success…if I can only force myself to do it and get of my lazy ass.
Thanks again.
Jae
August 23rd, 2011
3:52 pm
Ok so I’ve been researching companies to help get my muse off the ground and all I can find are invention companies like Davison and AbsolutelyNew, which from reading around have a high rate of “scam” or “ripoff” reviews. Anyone know of any reputable companies?? All I can find are companies NOT to use.
Thanks,
Troy
August 31st, 2011
5:41 am
EXTRA QUESTIONS FOR MUSES
I have read a lot of the case studies (yet to read the book – it is on order) but there are several questions i think would be pertinent to include:
1. How many hours per week are you spending on your business
2. What functions have you outsourced and to whom
3. How many of your processes are systemized.
Would also be interested in muses that are not new products, but have been made ‘streamlined’ in their management!
Thanks
Matt
September 29th, 2011
4:26 am
Great stuff… very inspiring.
I’m wondering how you identify manufacturers that are “dropshippers”. Many case studies refer to Ali Baba, is there a way to identify providers that are dropshippers over there? I didn’t find anything, but then again, it ‘s very new to me, I might not be looking in the right place.
Thanks and keep it coming.
October 3rd, 2011
6:46 am
Damn, that music teachers helper is the best case study I’ve seen!
Awesome product and awesome profitability…
I am going to do [X]helper.com too
Good luck :)
October 4th, 2011
12:30 pm
Good post. Actual case studies are always great content.
But, is it just myself who think something important is missing from these case studies?
October 4th, 2011
2:44 pm
Ali, what would that be?
October 6th, 2011
7:21 pm
Hi Chris,
Wondering if you actually had any sewing experience or any knowledge on what type of stitches you selected for your type of product. Basically I would like to know any online resources you used to help you spec out your product.
I’m a product designer and most of my experiences are in hard products such as metal, plastics and composites. I know the basic components that go into the design of hard products, but I’m very curious about soft goods.
October 7th, 2011
8:32 am
I had no sewing experience other than I knew I like military/tactical gear quality so I went looking to mimic that. I have a technical designer that has schooled me on some of this stuff now but I still wish I could just take a crash course in sewing somewhere.
But really this shouldn’t be an obstacle, you just need to find the right manufacturer and test their work well to start with.
November 1st, 2011
7:16 am
I would start at the local Jr. High and ask your local Home Economics teacher. They are usually thrilled that somone is interested in their skills. They are teacher by nature and profession.
December 9th, 2011
7:27 pm
Thanks Steven, good idea :)
I now have a little treat or torture for you all to enjoy…. I get asked so many of the same questions related to this post so I finally decided to start making FAQ videos on how Datsusara started and how it runs now. The first 2 parts can be seen here…
part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTqPjQMhawQ
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sYz9rcReL4
these cover the following questions…
TEST MARKETING
Did you have an accurate rendering of your product or just a “rough draft” while you were test marketing?
Do you test market every new product you introduce?
Do you actually “mock sell” them like Tim suggests?
Do you worry about someone in cyberland stealing your ideas?
Did you use a shopify website to build your test site?
Did you only use google ad words to test market? I thought about dropping a line in the sherdog message boards to test demand but I think it would make it harder to get measurable results.
MANUFACTURING
How did you select your manufacturer?
Did you visit the manufacturing facility you selected?
Did you sell “pre-orders” prior to setting up your first production run?
How did you decide how much to order on your first run?
Was it a large up front expense?
FULFILLMENT
How did you select your fulfillment company?
At this point do you handle customer service issues?
LIFESTYLE
Has the lifestyle change been as substantial as you would have hoped?
Are you able to spend the majority of your time doing the things you enjoy now?
—–
I hope you all find this useful :)
December 13th, 2011
8:28 pm
hmm i’ve had a “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” for awhile now, any help guys?
December 21st, 2011
12:19 am
I love these muse examples and the structure that they’ve been published in. They’ve inspired me to create a website where I hope to document many more similar stories. If you liked these I’m sure you’ll get something out of the site so feel free to check it out (by clicking my name to the left).
Thanks again Tim
February 7th, 2012
12:20 pm
Hey Josh, don’t spam, not cool. That site has nothing to do with stories like this.
March 26th, 2012
8:42 am
Hi there,
I’m in the process of producing the above site – which is based on something I can’t get on the Internet.
And here’s the first point I want to make – If you are stuck in finding a muse just think of an improvement to an existing service or product.
The second is getting it to market. This is where most of the problems seem to arise.
So I’m thinking of getting a workshop together in September 2012 because I think a like minded group could help one another out as well as give inspiration.
As I’m based in the United Kingdom I was thinking of basing it in Europe on the island of Menorca (Spain) in the Mediterranean.
Any takers out there (I’ve checked the follow up comments via e-mail?
Cheers
Nick
April 24th, 2012
10:30 am
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May 1st, 2012
12:49 pm
Ill get back to you later today on this, I know it’s crazy but I have all the answers you need. Short version.. Shopify is excellent and paired with Stripe it’s a simple combo that works well.
May 1st, 2012
12:57 pm
Who’s better than you? Nobody! Thanks Chris! Watching your videos right now. I really think Ferris should be paying you for all the time you dedicate to helping out.
May 1st, 2012
2:36 pm
Thanks Nicole! As for Tim it is I that owe him but…I’d be happy if he’d have a cup of tea with me here in Felton (redwood heaven).
I’m not sure what happened to your longer post but first let me say feel free to call me if this post doesn’t answer all of your questions…
Here is what you need…
Shopify. I did compare them and overall I thought they had the best system and I like the people I have dealt with there.
Stripe. I have done 3 different merch accounts so far. Paypal Pro was good and had decent rates but if you have questionable credit (long story but I had this problem as well) they can hold funds for up to 1 month! Not cool. Then I tried a few old fashioned mech accounts which were a huge pain in the ass and even though the rates seem lower on the surface, by the time you deal withh all the fees (especially for international payments) it’s even more than my new favorite, Stripe. Stripe charges 2.9 +30c per transaction but it’s a simple flat rate even for international and it’s very easy to see exactly what you are paying. Their approval process and setup is extremely easy and integrates well with Shopify. They hold funds for 1 week but so did my other old school merch accounts.
For hosting, I registered my domain via godaddy after finding a very good coupon which made their rates competitive (search for that). Then I use googles apps for free email services with my domain name. This took some time to setup but it’s fairly clearly documented and once you get it going it’s great because you don’t need to pay for a separate web host just for email at your domain.
Hope that helps :)
May 2nd, 2012
6:03 pm
Thanks for such thorough information Chris. I am surprised about Paypal because one of the things I liked about them was that they say right online that the payments are released into your account immediately and there is no credit application. That’s false advertisement! Do you no longer accept paypal? Also, I was told that if you register your domain with shopify, since they are the site host whether you register with them or not, they give you email accounts. I would like to urge anyone reading these posts, to ask your questions, get the answers in writing, then get another representative to ask again for verification. I’ve run into some very illusive sales reps at a few of these sites. Every time I ask the representative if there are any other fees or charges I need to know about in order to be up and running, they assure me there are not…then I find out one site requires you pay for bandwidth, another requires you pay for SSL certificates and the list goes on. Heck, I thought it was a simple as setting up with Shopify and had you, Chris, not told me, I never would have known I needed a separate payment gateway. Buyer beware! Here it is, right on the Paypal site: “There’s no credit application, …”
May 3rd, 2012
9:25 pm
I cleared this up with Nicole on the phone today but just to make sure… Paypal only does a credit check with “Paypal Pro” which is used when you want the option to keep people on your site, in your checkout system (like Shopify) and let Paypal do the background processing, they do not credit check for standard payments.
… i should make more videos for you guys :)
May 18th, 2012
9:42 am
To a moderator… any chance we can update my sites web address to “dsgear.com” instead of “dsmma.com” i appreciate the referrals here but i don’t want to keep that old domain just for that :)