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	<title>Comments on: Random 4: Tim Ferriss and Kevin Rose on Y-Combinator, Language Learning and More</title>
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	<link>http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/08/12/random-4-tim-ferriss-and-kevin-rose-on-y-combinator-language-learning-and-more/</link>
	<description>Tim Ferriss's 4-Hour Workweek and Lifestyle Design Blog</description>
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		<title>By: David Rosson</title>
		<link>http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/08/12/random-4-tim-ferriss-and-kevin-rose-on-y-combinator-language-learning-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-116165</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rosson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/?p=2104#comment-116165</guid>
		<description>As a native Mandarin speaker, who learnt to speak English quite well, I&#039;d like to say these things:
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_9c98fb880100xkvz.html

In a conversation with Kevin Rose, Ferriss was critiquing a textbook for mandarin. He disapproves the book’s approach because ‘it places too much focus on comprehension’. His ideal text, instead, would be all about utterance – to speak it (in order to carry out daily functions).
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/08/12/random-4-tim-ferriss-and-kevin-rose-on-y-combinator-language-learning-and-more/

By the way, one must laud his serious effort in getting the pronunciation and the tones right - few can do it well and naturally.

But his phrasebook approach is definite not learning a language. It’s like this machine that you can carry around, that can produce certain sounds to help satisfy your needs. Flip to page 18, line 35: “Where can I find the toilet?” flip to page 23, line 20: “Two beers, please.” This is Ferriss’s ideal: to traverse through another culture/society without any immersion, saturation or understanding of it. Colonial imperialist! His approach is but internalizing this device into his brain, so as to conveniently carry it around.

In contrast, I highly recommend the learner start from comprehension. Language, this phenomenon of language, universal throughout all human societies, itself, is marvellous. [Insert citation] evidence suggests that a few children, within one generation, can invent a language of their own, complete with phonology, morphology and syntax. It is a wonder of the human brain.

The beauty of a language is in its richness, its expressiveness – its ability to elucidate ideas – and have other humans understand them. Language necessarily involves ‘theory of mind’. The most important thing about usage, is how it would be perceived and understood by the recipient. When I say something, what does the audience think I’m saying? It requires the ability to model the thinking of other, inside our own mind.

A language has richness in its freedom, you can make up your own sentences – and it can still be understood – it does not have to come from a set phrasebook. And poetry, metaphors, stories, indeed a large part of human culture, derives from this free association and creative process. You can say something complete new, that no-one on this planet has every uttered before, yet, it can be understood. This is the source of the beauty of literature. Each creation is unique, yet universal.

This relies on the capacity for ‘theory of mind’ – one must be able to understand – then to make some expression understood by others. It is exactly this capacity for empathy (You misanthrope, Ferriss!) that propels language and its dynamic growth (as being learned, used and enjoyed by the learners). That ideas can be ‘grasped’ by one mind – then conveyed to another – this is the most magical phenomenon.
For this very reason, comprehension is essential. Without comprehension, there is no language! You might as well press a button with the image of two beers on it. Yet, of all the poetic or heroic things sprung from, or said about, two beers, can never come from set images, or from buttons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a native Mandarin speaker, who learnt to speak English quite well, I&#8217;d like to say these things:<br />
<a href="http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_9c98fb880100xkvz.html" rel="nofollow">http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_9c98fb880100xkvz.html</a></p>
<p>In a conversation with Kevin Rose, Ferriss was critiquing a textbook for mandarin. He disapproves the book’s approach because ‘it places too much focus on comprehension’. His ideal text, instead, would be all about utterance – to speak it (in order to carry out daily functions).<br />
<a href="http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/08/12/random-4-tim-ferriss-and-kevin-rose-on-y-combinator-language-learning-and-more/" rel="nofollow">http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/08/12/random-4-tim-ferriss-and-kevin-rose-on-y-combinator-language-learning-and-more/</a></p>
<p>By the way, one must laud his serious effort in getting the pronunciation and the tones right &#8211; few can do it well and naturally.</p>
<p>But his phrasebook approach is definite not learning a language. It’s like this machine that you can carry around, that can produce certain sounds to help satisfy your needs. Flip to page 18, line 35: “Where can I find the toilet?” flip to page 23, line 20: “Two beers, please.” This is Ferriss’s ideal: to traverse through another culture/society without any immersion, saturation or understanding of it. Colonial imperialist! His approach is but internalizing this device into his brain, so as to conveniently carry it around.</p>
<p>In contrast, I highly recommend the learner start from comprehension. Language, this phenomenon of language, universal throughout all human societies, itself, is marvellous. [Insert citation] evidence suggests that a few children, within one generation, can invent a language of their own, complete with phonology, morphology and syntax. It is a wonder of the human brain.</p>
<p>The beauty of a language is in its richness, its expressiveness – its ability to elucidate ideas – and have other humans understand them. Language necessarily involves ‘theory of mind’. The most important thing about usage, is how it would be perceived and understood by the recipient. When I say something, what does the audience think I’m saying? It requires the ability to model the thinking of other, inside our own mind.</p>
<p>A language has richness in its freedom, you can make up your own sentences – and it can still be understood – it does not have to come from a set phrasebook. And poetry, metaphors, stories, indeed a large part of human culture, derives from this free association and creative process. You can say something complete new, that no-one on this planet has every uttered before, yet, it can be understood. This is the source of the beauty of literature. Each creation is unique, yet universal.</p>
<p>This relies on the capacity for ‘theory of mind’ – one must be able to understand – then to make some expression understood by others. It is exactly this capacity for empathy (You misanthrope, Ferriss!) that propels language and its dynamic growth (as being learned, used and enjoyed by the learners). That ideas can be ‘grasped’ by one mind – then conveyed to another – this is the most magical phenomenon.<br />
For this very reason, comprehension is essential. Without comprehension, there is no language! You might as well press a button with the image of two beers on it. Yet, of all the poetic or heroic things sprung from, or said about, two beers, can never come from set images, or from buttons.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Al Slagle</title>
		<link>http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/08/12/random-4-tim-ferriss-and-kevin-rose-on-y-combinator-language-learning-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-79524</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Slagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2010 11:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/?p=2104#comment-79524</guid>
		<description>Hey Tim,

I&#039;ve been teaching English in Japan for about 10 years now and love your stuff about language acquisition. Just wondering why you recommend &quot;In Other Words&quot; out of all the linguistics books out there? I just picked it up and will dig into it very soon. 

Thanks for all the inspiration and we definitely need to get these &quot;salarymen&quot; on the 4-hour workweek program! (although we know they could start by just cutting down to 40;))

Al in Tokyo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Tim,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been teaching English in Japan for about 10 years now and love your stuff about language acquisition. Just wondering why you recommend &#8220;In Other Words&#8221; out of all the linguistics books out there? I just picked it up and will dig into it very soon. </p>
<p>Thanks for all the inspiration and we definitely need to get these &#8220;salarymen&#8221; on the 4-hour workweek program! (although we know they could start by just cutting down to 40;))</p>
<p>Al in Tokyo</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/08/12/random-4-tim-ferriss-and-kevin-rose-on-y-combinator-language-learning-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-76456</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Oct 2010 18:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/?p=2104#comment-76456</guid>
		<description>Just wanted to say that watching movies is a great way to improve foreign language skills.  You learn about culture and the language in a very distilled form very quickly.  I have always been very weak when it comes to grammar but listening to Germany movies and to people in Bavaria I have been able to increase a mental understanding of German and teach myself Bavarian.  I speak it every day now and understand Bavarian better than native Germans.  I feel like the 13th warrior.  The mind is a very powerful tool.  challenge it!

I do have to say that I haven&#039;t known about Tim Ferris too long but becoming a big fan of him quickly.  Keep up the great work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to say that watching movies is a great way to improve foreign language skills.  You learn about culture and the language in a very distilled form very quickly.  I have always been very weak when it comes to grammar but listening to Germany movies and to people in Bavaria I have been able to increase a mental understanding of German and teach myself Bavarian.  I speak it every day now and understand Bavarian better than native Germans.  I feel like the 13th warrior.  The mind is a very powerful tool.  challenge it!</p>
<p>I do have to say that I haven&#8217;t known about Tim Ferris too long but becoming a big fan of him quickly.  Keep up the great work.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/08/12/random-4-tim-ferriss-and-kevin-rose-on-y-combinator-language-learning-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-67904</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 07:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/?p=2104#comment-67904</guid>
		<description>Hey Tim + Kevin,

I&#039;ve read much of your material on language learning and have one simple question I can&#039;t seem to find the answer to. 

Can you learn a computer programming language using the same techniques and if so how?

Looking forward to your response and thanks in advanced ;)

Stephen Lew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Tim + Kevin,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read much of your material on language learning and have one simple question I can&#8217;t seem to find the answer to. </p>
<p>Can you learn a computer programming language using the same techniques and if so how?</p>
<p>Looking forward to your response and thanks in advanced ;)</p>
<p>Stephen Lew</p>
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		<title>By: Florian</title>
		<link>http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/08/12/random-4-tim-ferriss-and-kevin-rose-on-y-combinator-language-learning-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-64906</link>
		<dc:creator>Florian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/?p=2104#comment-64906</guid>
		<description>Just a very good recomendation of where to get Chinese movies for free. You only have to downlaod the application www.pps.tv from the Internet. There are millions of Chinese, Japanes and Korean movies for free and you can watch them online (streaming). For me the best way to learn Chinese by &quot;only&quot; watching movies.

Again the little gadget is called: pps.tv</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a very good recomendation of where to get Chinese movies for free. You only have to downlaod the application <a href="http://www.pps.tv" rel="nofollow">http://www.pps.tv</a> from the Internet. There are millions of Chinese, Japanes and Korean movies for free and you can watch them online (streaming). For me the best way to learn Chinese by &#8220;only&#8221; watching movies.</p>
<p>Again the little gadget is called: pps.tv</p>
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