Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts 442 Comments
Mullet power: John Inzer deadlifts 780 lbs. at 165 lbs. bodyweight. (Photo: Powerlifting USA)
Pavel Tsatsouline, former Soviet Special Forces physical training instructor, has made a name for himself in the world of strength.
He wrote the below article, outlining the simple routine of Russian Master of Sports, Alexander Faleev, for Built magazine, which folded before publication. Pavel contacted me to publish the piece here, and I am pleased to offer it to you as an exclusive.
Though I often suggest training to failure for maximal size gains (see “Geek to Freak: How I Gained 34 lbs. in 4 Weeks”), the pre-failure approach detailed here is excellent for maximal strength development, and the repetitions can be further reduced for relative strength (per-lb. bodyweight) development.
Enter Pavel…
Total read time: 12 minutes.
Read time for routine only: 7 minutes.
Pavel:
I have read a book that has made an impression: The 4-Hour Workweek by Timothy Ferriss.
The 4-Hour Workweek is not a dubious get-rich-quick scheme but a guide to ultimate productivity through ruthless elimination of non-essentials. “Doing less meaningless work, so that you can focus on things of greater personal importance, is NOT laziness,” states the author. “This is hard to accept, because our culture tends to reward personal sacrifice instead of personal productivity. Few people choose to (or are able to) measure the results of their actions and thus measure their contribution in time.”
It is no surprise that Russia has borne a number of Ferriss-type strength and muscle building programs, mercilessly eliminating the non-essentials and delivering extraordinary gains. One is Alexander Faleev’s system that has gained many followers among Russian muscle heads in the last four years.
Comrade Faleev dabbled with powerlifting for seven or eight years, then took a few years off. He poured over years of his training logs looking for what worked and came back to the barbell with a vengeance. In just six months, he reached the coveted Master of Sports level in powerlifting.
Faleev has summed up his approach as “Nothing extra!” In one sentence, it is about doing only four things: the squat, the bench, the deadlift, and competing regularly. That’s it.
The system the Russian had developed for his strength and size breakthrough could have come out of The 4-Hour Workweek. Among Tim Ferriss’ tools for getting the most out of life is Pareto’s law. The essence of the law is that 80% of all results come from 20% of the efforts. Applied to muscle and strength, it means, if most gains will come from the three powerlifts, why waste your time and energy on curls and close-grip benches?
Before I will move on to the nuts and bolts of the training regimen I will address your objections. I can read your mind: “But I am not a powerlifter, and I don’t want to look like one!”
The sport of powerlifting (PL) has an unfair image of refrigerator-sized men whose faces turn red from blood pressure when they bend over to tie their shoes — or rather try to bend over and get stopped by an enormous “uni-ab”. To say that all PLers look like that is akin to stating that all runners are thin and wiry.
Look at photos of powerlifters in lighter weight classes. They are as hard as a rock, and many are ripped — without curls and cable crossovers. Take Texan John Inzer who held the world record in the deadlift for years, 780 pounds at 165 pounds of bodyweight or Ukrainian Oleksandr Kutcher, who recently beat that record with 793 pounds. These guys look more like gymnasts than refrigerators.
Tim: Oleksandr Kutcher pulls a light 694 lbs. and then needs chamomile tea.
Faleev’s 80/20 Routine
5 x 5 Progression:
For beginners, Faleev offers a straightforward progressive overload workout with 5 sets of 8 reps. Eventually you are supposed to advance to 5 x 5. In my opinion, you should go straight to 5 x 5. Sets of five are the meat and potatoes of strength training.
Start with a conservative weight. If you manage five reps in all five sets, next time add 10 pounds and start over. Not 5 pounds, and definitely not 2, but 10. For reasons that are outside of the scope of this article, Malibu Ken and Barbie jumps with tiny plates are a waste of time.
Most likely you will not bag all the fives on your first workout with the new weight. Perhaps you will get 5, 5, 5, 4, 3. No problem, stay with the poundage until you get all 5×5. Your second workout might be 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, and your third of fourth should get you to 5 x 5. Slap on another pair of “nickels” (5-lb. plates) and work your way up to 5 x 5 again. According to Faleev, the above progression will add 110-175 pounds to your max in each of the three powerlifts in one year, provided you are fairly new to the game.
Deadlift 1x per week; Squat and Bench 2x per week
You will be deadlifting once a week and squatting and benching twice a week, once heavy and once light for the latter two. Your light days are for honing technique, not for burning out your muscles with high reps. Do 5 sets of 4 reps (5 x 4) with weights that are 80% of the heavy day’s. For instance, if you did 5 x 5 with 200 on your heavy day, stay with 160 for 5 x 4 on your light day. That’s it! The key to the program’s success is in doing less.
The Russian recommends the following schedule:
Monday –heavy squat (SQ)
Tuesday –heavy benchpress (BP)
Wednesday –heavy deadlift (DL)
Thursday – light SQ
Friday –light BP
Saturday –off
Sunday –off
If training five days is not an option, four will do:
Monday –heavy SQ
Tuesday –heavy BP
Wednesday –heavy DL
Thursday –off
Friday – light SQ, light BP
Saturday –off
Sunday –off
Not ideal, but if you have to cram your training into three days:
Monday – heavy SQ
Tuesday –off
Wednesday –heavy BP, light SQ
Thursday – off
Friday – heavy DL, light BP
Saturday – off
Sunday – off
Failure and Rest Intervals
Never train to failure! Don’t attempt a rep unless you are 100% sure you will make it. Ideally, keep one extra rep in the bank. “Save your strength for the next set,” insists Faleev.
Don’t get greedy.
Practice one lift per workout, stretch, and get out. Faleev stresses that you must wrap up each strength workout with static stretches. “The benefits of stretching are enormous. Stretching can increase your strength by 10%. It is a lot.” The man explains that “when you lift a weight your muscles contract. And after the workout the muscles remain contracted for some time. The following restoration of the muscles’ length is what recovery is. Until the muscle has restored its length, it has not recovered. Hence he who does not stretch his muscles slows down the recuperation process and retards his gains.” Besides, tension and relaxation are the two sides of the same coin, “if the muscle forgets how to lengthen, it will contract more poorly. And that is stagnation of strength.”
Don’t rush your sets.
Do a couple warm-up sets if you must, then feel free to take 5 min. and even more between your work sets. Top power dogs take longer; 30 min. is not unheard of. Power loves rest and does not tolerate rushing. You may feel that you are completely recovered in 2 min. but take a full 5 anyway. According to Faleev, an hour is a good number to shoot for in your workout length.
Balanced Development: Biceps and Other Decorations
One common objection is: “But I will not get a balanced development if do only three exercises! What about my biceps and my…?!”
Faleev sticks to his guns: “For a sharp increase in muscle mass and [strength] results you must do only three exercises: the bench press, the squat, and the deadlift… when you deadlift a 550-pound barbell think what kind of a huge load is born by your biceps, shoulders, traps, and even neck… When you squat with a 550-pound barbell, think about the high pressure the athlete’s abdomen must withstand. An athlete lifting such weights cannot have weak abs by definition –the midsection is strengthened in the process of training the squat. If you bench 330, the muscles of your arms, chest, and the front delts will be so developed, than any bodybuilder will be envious. One must add an interesting detail–in the bench press it is very important to learn to use the lats when starting the bar off the chest. Perhaps someone will think of this as a paradox but the bench press develops the back as well, especially the lats.” Faleev states than the above numbers, a 550-pound squat and deadlift and a 330-pound bench, are “more than achievable” if you focus on these exercises and practice them for years.
And if you have not felt your abs when squatting, it only means you have not squatted heavy enough. “Bodybuilding is a strength sport. Don’t forget it,” admonishes Faleev.
The only legit reason for additional exercises is correction of a dysfunction or imbalance that puts your health at risk. An example would be a pronounced discrepancy in the hamstrings’ flexibility, your knees caving in when you land after a jump, or the failure to activate your butt muscles or “gluteal amnesia”. But diagnosis and correction of such problems is not something you can do on your own or even under the guidance or a personal trainer; you need a specially trained health professional. I suggest that you find one through Gray Cook’s website. Cook is the country’s premier sports physical therapist; in the last Super Bowl both teams were his clients. Get a tune-up from a professional on his team so you can safely focus on the basics and not do stupid things like extra leg curls “to balance out my quads”.
But back to our basics.
Faleev stresses that additional exercises are worse than worthless –- they are harmful because they drain valuable energy that your body could have directed towards spectacular gains in the big three. “…get rid of the excesses and just do what is necessary… When you give up the secondary exercises, you will feel that you are not training enough. You will be leaving the gym totally fresh. This is it, the energy for an increase in the load in the basic lifts. This reserve is what will enable you to ’shoot out of the gate’!”
The above point cannot be emphasized enough; curls, calf raises, and other miscellaneous non-sense may not feel hard but they drain your adaptive energy!
The Fourth Element: Competition and Parkinson’s Law
Focus on the lifts that matter is half of Faleev’s power and muscle equation. Regularly competing in sanctioned power meets is the other half. Faleev observes that with a powerlifting meet date looming on the calendar, many an athlete have accomplished more in six months than others have in many years.
In The 4-Hour Workweek, Tim Ferriss echoes him when he makes use of the Parkinson’s law to get results faster.
According to this law, a task will take as much time as you will allot for it. In other words, you will shine under the pressure of an ambitious deadline. Applied to iron, it means compete, and often! You will be forced to focus on what matters — your squat, your bench, your deadlift –– rather than fool around with what former Coach Powerlifting Team USA Mark Reifkind calls “random acts of variety”. Subscribe to Powerlifting USA magazine on Amazon. Find a meet near you three months away, and go for it! Look for “raw” meets that require that you compete without special squat suits, bench shirts, etc. AAU is one of the federations that hosts raw meets.
As the meet approaches, cut back from 5 x 5 to 4 x 4, 3 x 3, and finally, a couple of weeks before the competition, 2 x 2. Up the poundages accordingly. After the meet, take a week off, then start over with 5 x 5.
Faleev stresses that maxing in the gym is dangerous. Maxing out tests your strength but does not build it. A max workout in the gym amounts to missing a productive 5 x 5 day that you will never get back.
Tim: 5 x 5 isn’t just for beginners: Johnnie Jackson, one of the few champions in both powerlifting and bodybuilding, demonstrates the deadlift. I suggest not slamming the plates. Touch the plates to the floor as if a baby were sleeping in the room.
Faleev offers a formula that will help you estimate your max from your 5 x 5: multiply that weight by 1.2. This is not exact science, but it is much better than those ridiculous charts that claim to calculate your 1 rep max (1RM) from your 10RM.
Just decide what you want: The process of enjoying the pump, the burn, and the variety of exercises? Or muscles and power?
Faleev’s secret of success is so simple, it is easy to ignore: practice nothing but the powerlifts and compete regularly. Period. The Russian muscle man walks into the gym, trains one lift, spends a few minutes stretching, and hits the showers. Done!
Since he dropped all the assistance exercises his progress has been nothing but spectacular. Ironically, his gym buddies who sweat for hours wasting time on meaningless exercises consider him a slacker. He does not care, the wily Russkie has the last laugh with his strength and his mass.
# # #
About the author:
Pavel Tsatsouline is a former Soviet Special Forces physical training instructor, currently a subject matter expert to the US Secret Service, the US Marine Corps, and the US Navy SEALs. Pavel’s bestselling book Power to the People!: Russian Strength Training Secrets has been published in the US and Russia.
In real-time: Follow Tim and his experimentation with Pavel’s methods here.
Posted on December 18th, 2008
- Subscribe and get the latest
- Save this page
- Stumble It
- Email to a Friend
- Print it
- Leave a comment
Comment Rules: Remember what Fonzie was like? Cool. That's how we're gonna be -- cool. Critical is fine, but if you're rude, we'll delete your stuff. Please do not put your URL in the comment text and please use your PERSONAL name or initials and not your business name, as the latter comes off like spam. Have fun and thanks for adding to the conversation! (Thanks to Brian Oberkirch for the inspiration)
442 Responses to “Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts”
December 18th, 2008
4:14 am
Great article – thanks for posting Tim.
I´ll be testing these insights in my muscle lab!
December 18th, 2008
4:17 am
Hey Tim,
It makes total sense to me that he could apply this principle to powerlifting so effectively. I was able to use the 80/20 principle for both the creation of my muse and in applying the same principle to P90x (my current experiment). Great article.
Also, Horacio Goday at La Viruta in Buenos Aires says hello. It was a fantastic Tango Lesson (and great mini retirement)! He wound up doing the opening of the BsAs video that we shot at La Viruta. Lots of fun had by all.
Merry Xmas,
Rob
Jet Set Life
December 18th, 2008
4:21 am
Damn,
I love it when two of my favourite authors make a venture :)
Tim Ferris and Pavel Tatsouline. So glad to see them together.
Its a nice and good surprise.
December 18th, 2008
4:40 am
Tim:
Interesting post. Curious what Pavel thinks about replacing Dead lifts with “Cleans” (“Clean and Jerk” – essentially dead lift + overhead press). Also is this exercise routine recommended for “surfers” / swimmers. People who want to remain flexible, thin, but have power.
More on “Cleans”
http://bodybuilding.about.com/od/olympicweightlifting/ht/clean_and_jerk.htm
THanks
Robert
December 18th, 2008
4:55 am
Thank you Tim. You just helped me find my next workout routine for next month.
December 18th, 2008
4:55 am
Thanks for sharing this. I should give this a try and ask advice on the specifics mentioned here. Great post!
December 18th, 2008
5:10 am
Very interesting, sounds like my kind of workout. Might have to test this out. I’m certainly not doing well with the random acts of variety.
December 18th, 2008
5:19 am
[...] going through my RSS reader, I see that he has a new post about the 80/20 principle and weight lifting. While the article wasn’t wrote by him (Pavel Tsatsouline, a Russian powerlifter who [...]
December 18th, 2008
5:25 am
Wow, 2 of my favorite influences come together! By the way, Tsatsouline is probably even more known for his work with “kettlebell” training. Kettlebells are also very FHWW-ish in the fact that they take very little time for maximum results.
I’ve been into them for years, and my website was inspired by reading FHWW… so, two of my favorites really have come together!
December 18th, 2008
5:25 am
Great Post Tim!
I only can say that this may not be for everyone. It’s great for PLer’s who only compete in these exercises, but that is a very limited population. I know many clients of mine who are PLer’s and cannot do a single chin up. Pavel mentioned that lats are used in the bench press, however, it is only used in a limited range of motion, not the best training method for trying to pull-up your own weight.
I think that a variety of full-body exercises should be employed, not just the PLers core 3. Pull-ups, rows, and overhead movements are 3 exercises I would include to achieve full-body strength. But I have to say, I agree with Pavel, throw out the leg extensions and bicep curls. You will never see me throw a client on a machine like that. Great application of 80/20.
Stay tuned when I use the approach of 80/20 and take my first mini-retirement to Greece and run my first marathon, the Classic Marathon from Marathon to Athens on an extremely low mileage training plan, inspired by Pareto.
Your Digital Trainer,
Jeremiah
December 18th, 2008
6:26 am
Great post! Pavel is definitely the man (Tim’s pretty damn cool, too). Rocking the big lifts with big weights – how can you go wrong?
December 18th, 2008
6:36 am
I wonder… Since neither squats nor bench presses are safe to perform without a spotter: Could you switch the bench press for dumbell bench presses? And is there a safer version of the squats that is OK to do on your own?
December 18th, 2008
6:39 am
Is that Bill Clinton’s brother in the picture?
December 18th, 2008
7:02 am
Great stuff. Still, for most folks the Super Slow Exercise Protocol (originally from Author Jones/Nautilus) would be more effective,efficient, and safe…1 set @ creepy-slow speed to failure, 8 or less exercises, 20 – 30 minutes a week! Guaranteed to outperform all other programs.
Google: Super Slow Exercise Protocol
Regards,
Brian
December 18th, 2008
7:32 am
Strangely enough, I switched up my workout last night to shoot for max & feel so much more energized today.
December 18th, 2008
7:53 am
An article by Pavel, but not one mention of a kettlebell?
Everyone needs to do some weight training for overall health and performance. Powerlifting gets a bad wrap, but the principles are sound. Nothing more basic than picking up weight. I do think most folks would benefit more from a standing press than a bench press.
For more brutally simple and effective workouts check out Dan John.
http://danjohn.org/
Dan knows his stuff and isn’t afraid to put himself to the test to prove it.
December 18th, 2008
8:15 am
OK, I’m a girl, so maybe I just don’t “get it,” but 5 1hr workouts a week – just for strength training, mind you – doesn’t seem very efficient to me. Add in a reasonable amount of cardio, like 3 20 minute interval sessions each week, and you’re up to at least 6 hours of gym time, plus the travel/changing/showering time per week.
Got anything more efficient, Tim?
December 18th, 2008
8:38 am
Hi Tim,
Very interesting article. I’m currently doing 2 days a week for lifting (upper body one day, lower body the other day), 8 exercises per workout, 8-12 reps (1 set) to failure as per one of your previous blog posts. This seems to be working pretty well. My fiancée and I have seen the best results in the gym using this routine than anything else we’ve tried, but we’re always looking to improve.
What are your thoughts in comparing our current routine to this 5×5, never to failure, routine of 3 key exercises?
Thanks a lot,
Robert
December 18th, 2008
9:03 am
I am interested, whether the system as described helps with endurance as well I know a strong muscle will fatigue less but straight weight training for strength I don’t believe will help an endurance athlete. As was pointed out in a earlier comment, if you are training for cardio is well, it ends up being quite a long time spent training
December 18th, 2008
9:14 am
Tim,
As a Titleist Performance Institute Instructor, this sort of stuff is right in my wheel house. I think it very important that before anyone does these types of workouts, they need to be physically screened to determine if their body has the stability/mobility to perform correct squats, dead lifts, etc.
For example, we would never start anyone with a dead lift until they can prove they can handle a bridge with leg extension. Dead lifts require proper glute function. Another example would be the squat…we would make sure that they can perform a deep squat, heels on the ground, and their butt past their knees before adding weight.
If they don’t pass our screens we put them through a progression of corrections with the goal of performing a dead lift, squat etc.
December 18th, 2008
9:31 am
Hey Tim,
Just a few comments, for those interested in a similar and more detailed approach to the “80/20″ approach to working out you should look into getting Rippetoe’s starting strength. It’s a great book that places major emphasis on all compound lifts and the importance of proper biomechanics etc.
As for the article above I’ve studied and am still studying the how much muscle recruitment you get from compounds lifts. To say that you gain as much muscle from doing compound lifts alone is not an accurate statement.
You do in fact gain if you use compound lifts because you are recruiting a large amount of muscle fibres which require your body to use more motor units to contract them but you would gain more muscle if you put time into individual’s muscles.
It really comes down to what results you want. Power lifters focus on being able to recruit large amounts of fast twitch fibres in order to lift large amounts of weight. The way they grow and look is much different from a bodybuilder or anyone who focuses on hypertrophy.
With hypertrophy, in a nutshell you are constantly aiming to destroy and rebuild your muscle fibers. Which is why mixing in compound and isolation would be ideal.
Sorry for babbling I’ll try to address this on my website another day. I guess what I’m trying to say is if you want to build maximal strength Power lift. If you want hypertrophy find a program that incorporates the important core compound lifts but you’ll need addition isolation work too
Brian
December 18th, 2008
9:37 am
Tim, you should check out MuscleHack.com
Follows your philosophy of do less but gain more.
December 18th, 2008
9:51 am
Tim and Pavel!
That’s what I’m talking about — 80/20 — less is more, it’s a key component of my DoubleYourGains’ 3-5 program.
The more you specialize the greater progress you make, and why spend time doing wrist curls when you could be deadlifting a bar bending load and getting better forearm work?
Love it!
Caleb
December 18th, 2008
9:56 am
“Curious what Pavel thinks about replacing Dead lifts with “Cleans” (”Clean and Jerk” – essentially dead lift + overhead press). Also is this exercise routine recommended for “surfers” / swimmers. People who want to remain flexible, thin, but have power.”
Robert, I would not replace DLs with C&Js. The Olympic lifts require different loading patterns. http://www.danjohn.org/coach has an excellent free e-book on the subject.
December 18th, 2008
9:58 am
“As a Titleist Performance Institute Instructor, this sort of stuff is right in my wheel house. I think it very important that before anyone does these types of workouts, they need to be physically screened to determine if their body has the stability/mobility to perform correct squats, dead lifts, etc.”
Ryan, well put. Comrades, http://www.functionalmovements.com is the place.
December 18th, 2008
10:00 am
Wow this is too cool! I’m a huge Pavel (and Ferris) fan but I am more into the stretching aspects because I am hyper flexible or as Pavel would put it I am mutant flexible. Now I’m inspired to do more and have some good guidelines to live by. I’ll be passing this around for sure. Thanks Tim!
December 18th, 2008
10:14 am
Tim,
Your book was the first time I had the 80/20 rule put in proper context for me. Everyone always referred to it but I was too embarrassed to ask for a full explanation. I am not sure most people that cite it, truly grasp it. Asking the question, where else can I apply this rule has become addicting!
As an avid gym rat I am going to try the above. However, I am also scheduled to start one on one lessons with a UFC fighter and wondered if you think this workout would should be modified for aspiring fighters.
Yusuf
December 18th, 2008
10:23 am
Hey Tim,
Great job on the article. I agree and have experienced many of the points Pavel made in the post. I had a 14 year football career with a power mentality (it was taught to us by our strength coaches) to become a better football player. Then transitioned into a drug free for life professional body building career in the WNBF for the last 13 years. I have competed alongside of some of the best truly drug free bodybuilders in the world. Dave Gooden, Francis Gay, Jim Cordova etc.
Also, for the last 8 years I have had the luxury of being arguable one of the busiest fitness trainers / healthy lifestyle coaches in the world with over 18,000 sessions with clients.
At this point of my career and at the age of 43 I have learned that it is never one thing or one mindset that gets results. It is always a combination to proven strategies that works best. With that being said I believe for the avergage person, with average goals that a program with some powerlifing moves, with some body building moves, some athletic functional plyometric moves, and stretching is the best approach.
In my trademarked FatLoss Lifestyle 12 Week body transformation program we use a wide variety of techniques. But for the base philosophy we try to make light weights feel heavy by going slow (a 3.1.3 rep tempo) and isometrically squeezing target muscles.
I can’t tell you how many of my high school and college buddies who kept up with the “How Much Ya Bench” power-lifting mentality for 10 years or so ended up with hip and shoulder replacement surgery. I would disagree with Pavel that there is a difference between muscle strength and hypertrophy (bigger). Usually a powerlifting mindset and strategy is going to put more stress on the tendons and bones and joints and the 3-1-3 rep tempo (put the mind in the muscle and squeeze) mentality is going to put the stress in the muscle.
On average bodybuilders who are going to have bigger muscles than powerlifters. Also, when trying to design a personal program we have to consider amount of time being spent on working out.
But, (not to blow smoke at you) if there is anyone on the face of this earth that can figure out how to create the best, most time efficient program that produces desired results, it is you Tim. And I know you are on a mission with this. Please let me know if there is anyway I can help you out. thanks for the backward link.
Darin (from the windy city)
December 18th, 2008
10:25 am
I sent you a msg on a similar program a little while back called “Stronglifts 5 X 5″. I’ve been doing this program for about two months and have very noticeable results, i.e. rock hard legs and nice upper body definition. The wifey likes the changes.
You can Google it to see the website. It uses an add 5 lbs. each workout as opposed to the 10 in this article, however, the weight adds up quick.
Anyone interested in core strengthening (not body building which is more for looks) should give it a look. It has a very detailed routine for a full body workout each time.
-Spencer
December 18th, 2008
10:48 am
I love the “read time” you included at the beginning.
December 18th, 2008
11:11 am
Good article, Pavel’s stuff is always good to read.
December 18th, 2008
11:15 am
Tim, thanks for sharing this, I ALWAYS loved Pavel’s info.
I am a HUGE fan of the methods that came from the 1970′ and prior to. These men were built with a rugged / athletic physique, I would say almost like 2nd rate Gymnasts.
I am more and more using the 80/20 rule to EVERYTHING I do as well, business and strength work.
I have a buddy who does this as well, and man is he putting on muscle and strength like never before.
He recently got into powerlifting / strongman and trains 4 x week.
He performs the military press, squat & deadlift and then has an event day w/strongman implements. He’s a BEAST!
You can’t go wrong with the squat and deadlift, I prefer to use the floor press slightly more often than the bench press, just to save my shoulders.
Many of the strongest men in the world followed the same advice of Pavel: they did the following on a regular basis:
- squats
- deadlift
- military press (barbell or dumbbell)
- power clean / hang clean / clean & press (barbell + dumbbell)
They also used some athletic gymnastics type movements such as hand balancing drills
The results were far beyond what I see coming through any of the typical gyms
This was an awesome post, thanks brother and thanks to Pavel!
Kill it Beast!
–Z–
December 18th, 2008
12:03 pm
Simple, but not easy. That’s the way to go.
Great to see Pavel contributing an article to this blog! It is a great surprise to see.
I’ll have to slightly disagree about being unable to diagnose and correct imbalances on your own. Yes, hiring a professional with decades of experience certainly will expedite the process, but there’s still plenty you can learn on your own. I’m sitting here with a copy of Gray Cook’s “Athletic Body in Balance” on my bookshelf, and I read T-nation and other such websites and references on a fairly regular basis. While I’m no renowned expert on the topic of imbalances, I’ve learned a tremendous amount over the past several years. I enjoy the learning process too.
I guess my whole point is, there’s nothing wrong with trying to learn and DIY when you start. Grab a professional when you really need them.
December 18th, 2008
12:05 pm
From Maria:
“OK, I’m a girl, so maybe I just don’t “get it,” but 5 1hr workouts a week – just for strength training, mind you – doesn’t seem very efficient to me. Add in a reasonable amount of cardio, like 3 20 minute interval sessions each week, and you’re up to at least 6 hours of gym time, plus the travel/changing/showering time per week. Got anything more efficient, Tim?”
Maria, you are right, this plan is efficient only for someone who makes strength the #1 priority. May I suggest a very low volume “easy strength” plan where you do a couple of global exercises for the reps totalling 10 in low rep sets (e.g. 5-5, 5-3-2, 3-3-4, 4-3-2-1, etc.) 2-3 times a week? This type of a program builds strength without building mass and leaves you plenty of time and energy for sports. Please refer to my book “Power to the People!” for details.
December 18th, 2008
12:15 pm
From Jeremiah Bell:
“I only can say that this may not be for everyone. It’s great for PLer’s who only compete in these exercises, but that is a very limited population. I know many clients of mine who are PLer’s and cannot do a single chin up. Pavel mentioned that lats are used in the bench press, however, it is only used in a limited range of motion, not the best training method for trying to pull-up your own weight.”
Jeremiah, true, but this applies only to bigger, fatter guys. According to the statistics by Belskiy (2000) middleweight and light heavyweight powerlifters were good for 22.5 pullups. I am sure Inzer and Kutcher could do even better.
December 18th, 2008
12:17 pm
Comrades, thank you for your kind words about the article!
December 18th, 2008
12:17 pm
Hi All!
Thanks for the great comments. A few things:
1) The key here is — in my opinion — progression with one major exercise per session. If you cannot perform squat or bench press (though I’ve done so solo using a well-set power rack) — and let’s even suppose you can’t do the conventional deadlift — you would still get outstanding results using overhead press, trap bar deadlift, and bent rows, for example.
People will disagree on best exercises, but my two criteria are simple: 1) safe for you to perform and 2) large compound exercises.
2) Comparing training to failure (HIT/SuperSlow/etc.) with 5 x 5, single set to failure will consume much less time. However, keep in mind that Pavel’s objective is maximal strength, and his 80/20 is applied to exercise selection, not time.
Failure can be used most effectively for gaining mass and not for maximal strength development. Pavel’s suggested workout takes time because of rest intervals and stops short of failure, which is ideal for many athletes who cannot afford the neural fatigue of training to failure within their sport training.
3) Regarding kettlebells, more coming on that separately. Keep an eye on http://www.twitter.com/tferriss for my ongoing experiments with them.
Hope that all helps!
All the best,
Tim
December 18th, 2008
12:39 pm
Very interesting article. I will be trying this out, since I was spending way to much time in the gym with my current routine.
December 18th, 2008
12:44 pm
How ironic, just this morning I was doing 240 sit-ups thinking to myself if this is all I do today, then it will be a great workout. Tomorrow we’ll give the pushups *push beyond normal* power shot too.
December 18th, 2008
1:52 pm
After reading this, I am extremely excited to go the gym. But what training advice would you offer to pitchers or quarterbacks who rely on shoulder strength in addition to this program? Thanks
December 18th, 2008
2:13 pm
Tim here’s a great video of how to snatch a KB without wacking your arm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ubc4uJdyB8
December 18th, 2008
2:16 pm
I think the thing that may have not been clear in the article is why squats, dead lifts, and bench. These three exercises recruit the largest amount of muscle in the body. They use all your stabilizers and therefore cause a larger response by your body. They dump more testosterone (to over simplify). They are intense.
If you’re doing squats and dead lifts girls, you don’t need 2 hours of aerobics every week, unless your preparing for a specific endurance sport. Abs are made in the kitchen, strength is made in the gym.
December 18th, 2008
2:19 pm
Interesting read. Static stretching, however beneficial for general mobility and recovery, does not increase strength and has been shown in studies to decrease strength by significant amounts (more than 10% for sure). That part jumped out to me.
December 18th, 2008
2:38 pm
From Christoffer:
“I wonder… Since neither squats nor bench presses are safe to perform without a spotter: Could you switch the bench press for dumbell bench presses? And is there a safer version of the squats that is OK to do on your own?”
Chris, the dumbbell press will not cut it. You can bench safely inside a power rack with the safety pins set just beneath your chest level. If you miss a rep, just sink the chest slightly. Ideally, you should never miss a rep though.
I believe that the Zercher squat is even better than the back squat and you
can easily dump the bar. Here is a link to an excellent Zercher squat video, 505 pounds lifted by powerlifter Jason Burnell:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/VidClips/505ZercherNoDance.WMV
December 18th, 2008
3:21 pm
Hello, great article. Like Nautilus on steroids… Also makes sense, just remember to learn to do the exercises properly to avoid injury.
Tim, saw that you’re interested in the kettlebells, personally I’ve found Josh Hillis’ blogg very interesting, if you don’t know about him already you might want to check it out. Ok, know that this is a quite girly thing to say but, well I like to have muscles but I don’t want to look like Schwarzenegger, so he has some ideas for that as well..
and, for the rest of you: just found tenminutesforchristmas.com, some cool guys (Leo Babauta from Zenhabits and more) on sale.. might try to buy on of them to my bf for christmas, at least one easy way to reach the untouchables, yeay! well what won’t one do for charity?;)
merry christmas all of you!
Lollo
December 18th, 2008
3:28 pm
I have tendonitis in my hands, leaving me with weak grip strength and plenty of pain if I lift anything heavy. I probably can’t even lift a fully loaded barbell. Is there an alternative to the deadlift?
You also forget to mention how to avoid looking like Johnnie Jackson. I don’t want to look like a bodybuilder as he does.
December 18th, 2008
3:35 pm
From Bob Smith:
“I have tendonitis in my hands, leaving me with weak grip strength and plenty of pain if I lift anything heavy. I probably can’t even lift a fully loaded barbell. Is there an alternative to the deadlift? You also forget to mention how to avoid looking like Johnnie Jackson. I don’t want to look like a bodybuilder as he does.”
Use straps for now and get your tendonitis treated so you can pull without them eventually. It takes a lot of eating in addition to lifting to look like a bodybuilder. To get huge you need to eat so much that you start hating food. Simply don’t do it!
December 18th, 2008
4:44 pm
I like the tight focus on “nothing extra!”
I thought the answer to adding 110+lbs was going to be RedBull, but I like this answer better.
I’m surprised by the “never train to failure” point. Many moons back I worked out with folks doing a Bulgarian workout (which I can’t seem to find now), but every set was to “beyond failure” — meaning you needed a partner for every single set. We got a lot weaker the first couple weeks, but then the gains were incredible, and I’ve never found a routine that beat it in terms of efficiency and effectiveness (simple approach – short routines, push past failure, grow )
December 18th, 2008
5:05 pm
From Mike:
“Interesting read. Static stretching, however beneficial for general mobility and recovery, does not increase strength and has been shown in studies to decrease strength by significant amounts (more than 10% for sure). That part jumped out to me.”
Mike, it depends on the protocol. Efimov, 1977 documented instant strength gains of up to 9.4% and long-term strength gains as well with special static stretching (“Loaded Stretching”).
December 18th, 2008
5:08 pm
From Watzzupsport:
“I am interested, whether the system as described helps with endurance as well I know a strong muscle will fatigue less but straight weight training for strength I don’t believe will help an endurance athlete. As was pointed out in a earlier comment, if you are training for cardio is well, it ends up being quite a long time spent training.”
Watzzupsport, there are different types of endurance. PL training will not help with marathon but will help with moving furniture all day.
December 18th, 2008
6:11 pm
Tim – thank you for posting this article. And thank you for the book – as a full time trainer and gym owner – it cut down my hours from 50+/week to 21/wk now and I’m looking forward to cutting it down even more (possibly to 12-16 hours spread over 3 days).
Pavel – thank you for writing it, comrade. And good link to Dan John’s stuff.
80/20 rule is excellent. That’s how we do CrossFit at our place – minimalistic and simplistic without delving into too much variety of funky stuff, emphasizing the basics.
And I’m pleasantly surprised to see so many names I’ve seen before on this blog out of all places – Jim B, Boris B, Pavel, Zach E.
Very cool indeed!
Leo S.
December 18th, 2008
7:28 pm
I am personally a fan of Scott Sonnon’s Clubbell. It allows six degrees of freedom and circular strength, ie left-right, up/down and backward/forward.
December 19th, 2008
4:49 am
From Pavel:
“…the dumbbell press will not cut it. You can bench safely inside a power rack with the safety pins set just beneath your chest level…”
I’m curious as to why dumbbell press can’t substitute for a regular barbell bench press. I would think that you could get a fuller range of motion with dumbbells and get a better workout from having to stabilize two independent weights.
Tim + Pavel, thanks for posting the article. I found it to be a good read with useful info.
December 19th, 2008
7:29 am
Interesting, but I can’t imagine as a newbie coming into a gym and doing my own thing like this without being browbeaten by the instructor or regulars…
December 19th, 2008
8:24 am
Seems like normal people could benefit from this idea too. Maybe not even 3 exercises, how about a combo? Deadlift sort of is like a squat, so you could do a deadlift with a press at the end, then just do 1 exercise! 80/20 the 80/20, that’s like 64/4 (64% results 4% effort).
- Slacker
December 19th, 2008
8:48 am
Pavel/Tim – Great article. Master the basics, something that people just don’t do nowadays. Having been in the fitness industry long enough, I am over most of what is sold out there by trainers. That and it seems mainstream media loves to promote complicated and isolated movements, when most people need to use their body in movements, not by muscles. I would say the deadlift is the most important exercise for anyone to do (as I have had 65+ yr old grandmothers lifting DB off the floor). High reps,…low reps…high volume…all that can be played with but the movements of deadlift, clean (and press), squat, bench are the keys to muscle growth on a hormonal level.
Along with the 5×5 principle I also love the simplicity of an EDT style of volume training…just doing as many reps of 2 major exercises for 15min…all compound movements…superseting and never going to 100% failure (keeping the weight so you are doing anywhere from 5-8 reps per set). Then up the weights next time.
Keeping it simple….life heavy, eat to recover, sleep, progress workouts….and results follow. Wish someone told me all this when I was in high school doing all the stupid stuff like curls in a squat rack.
December 19th, 2008
8:59 am
From Nestor:
“Interesting, but I can’t imagine as a newbie coming into a gym and doing my own thing like this without being browbeaten by the instructor or regulars…”
Nestor, find a powerlifter in your area (you may need to go online as there are not many out there) and hire him for a few sessions. PLers are great people, very helpful and humble, as all truly strong people are. Those who give you grief are wannabes.
December 19th, 2008
9:10 am
I need to know if im supposed to use a weight lifting belt, as some recommend not using one. Personal i would be scared not to use one but dosent this restrict the abs strength ?
So that’s Squat & Deadlft belt or no belt ?
Thanks and great article :)
December 19th, 2008
9:52 am
[...] has anyone attempted this work out plan? mine is similar in nature but not as extreme. considering it after the first of the year. Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts [...]
December 19th, 2008
11:53 am
A funny story about Pavel:
I attended a CSCS (certified strength and conditioning specialist) workshop in Irvine CA in April of this year with a friend.
Pavel is sitting behind us.
My friend, not familiar with Pavel, turns to me and says, “I want to look like THAT guy. He looks lean, powerful, and fit”.
I look back and see that he wants to look like the foremost authority on Kettlebell training in the world.
I wished him good luck – and let him know he has HIGH standards!
-Curtis :)
December 19th, 2008
11:56 am
Is there a good reason not to sub the standing barbell press instead of the bench press. I ask because I’m worried about my long term shoulder health with using the bench press as the sole pressing movement. Competition in the bench press event is not imporant to me.
December 19th, 2008
1:53 pm
Hi Tim,
Great article
I have a question though, i am a student looking to lose some weight and tone up, i go to the gym regularly (over a year on and off) and practise (though a little less now) martial arts. My question is, is there anyway to follow this exercise regime without the competing part? I am not a weightlifter and would not really like to compete i just want to get fit and healthy.
Cheers for any help/advice you can give
You rock!
Salim
December 19th, 2008
2:20 pm
I can verify that this type of ultra simple training works extremely well. those who fear the unstoppable growth of gigantic muscles can rest easy. I had a number of female students who were dancers some years ago that did weight training very similar to Faleev’s. It was Pavel’s Power to the People program, for several months these women did heavy deadlifts only. Changes observed were these:
1) Quick and dramatic increase in overall strength.
2) Better posture and alignment.
3) Increase in jumping ability.
4) Improved flexibility.
5) Better endurance.
6) Improved balance.
7) More resistant to injury.
8) Slight shrinkage of the waist.
9) A few pounds gained on the scale.
10) Extreme hardening of the entire body.
11) Noticeable increase in full body muscle definition.
12) Improvement in confidence and general attitude.
13) Substantial improvement as dancers.
My students also used the second program outlined in PTP which is only deadlifts and side press. Results held steady, only an additional improvement in upper body and grip strength was noted. I later put together some other programs that very much resemble Faleev’s, adding bench-press or squats or even push-press, but never anything beyond those few lifts, always heavy and reps 5 or less. The dancers became ever more fit and capable. In order to avoid gaining muscle size we simply kept rest periods between sets over 2 minutes.
These are students I trained every week for several years and there was never any evidence of the much feared, and often spoken of, imbalance in appearance, strength or any other athletic ability. I still see these students occasionally after eight years, and the results of this type of training still hold. The dancers really loved these sessions, they had a reputation at our gym as superwomen and they used to brag about being powerlifters.
If you are concerned about correct exercise form or about a possible barrage of nonsense from gym “experts,” hire a powerlifter to train you as Pavel suggests, or buy his book or DVD, Power to the People.
Correct stretching only makes a person weak for a few hours after the stretching session. In the long run the athlete is made stronger and more capable. The key here is the stretching must be correctly executed and applied. I recommend Pavel’s Relax into Stretch book and DVD.
Awesome article and great comments BTW. – E
December 19th, 2008
2:24 pm
Not exactly on topic, but I love the “Total read time” at the beginning! I’m trying to apply the 80/20 rule to as much as I can and that includes my blog reading schedule. Maybe that should be included on all posts? Great post!
December 19th, 2008
2:25 pm
Pavel,
I can definitely see the similarity in your and Tim’s philosophies.
Well spoken and insightful as always.
Thanks for connecting me with the strongman in North Dakota. I’ve been checking out his site and it’s impressive.
“The height of cultivation runs to simplicity. Halfway cultivation runs to ornamentation.” – Bruce Lee
Tim,
It says a lot in that when it comes to areas of your life as diverse as economics and strength training you choose to seek knowledge only from the most respected experts in the world like Warren Buffett and Pavel, respectively.
As someone told me recently, “The closer to the fountain, the more pure the water.”
December 19th, 2008
2:39 pm
Nice post. Thats a good lifting progression, I’ll have try it sometime. Nice to seei the theories from the book tied into the fitness realm.
As a fellow BJJ practitioner i wouldn’t mind hearing more about your training with Dave Camarillo, if you ever feel like writing about that.
Anton
December 19th, 2008
2:46 pm
From Slacker:
“Seems like normal people could benefit from this idea too. Maybe not even 3 exercises, how about a combo? Deadlift sort of is like a squat, so you could do a deadlift with a press at the end, then just do 1 exercise! 80/20 the 80/20, that’s like 64/4 (64% results 4% effort).”
Slacker, read my book “Power to the People!” (Tim has provided a link on the bottom of the article). It does exactly that.
December 19th, 2008
2:52 pm
From Mark:
“Is there a good reason not to sub the standing barbell press instead of the bench press. I ask because I’m worried about my long term shoulder health with using the bench press as the sole pressing movement. Competition in the bench press event is not imporant to me.”
I prefer the overhead press myself but it does not go up on low volume like 5×5 for long. When the press was a part of the Olympic weightlifting competition Russian lifters had a saying, “To press a lot you must press a lot.” You will find a high volume press regimen in my book “Enter the Kettlebell!” (www.enterthekettlebell.com); the press program can be applied to barbells or dumbells as well.
You can BP safely if your technique is right. The “corkscrew” technique and using the lats properly protects the shoulders.
December 19th, 2008
2:54 pm
From Salim:
“I have a question though, i am a student looking to lose some weight and tone up, i go to the gym regularly (over a year on and off) and practise (though a little less now) martial arts. My question is, is there anyway to follow this exercise regime without the competing part? I am not a weightlifter and would not really like to compete i just want to get fit and healthy.”
Salim, it has been said that without a goal it is not training but “working out”. At least schedule an informal competition in the gym with your buddies.
December 19th, 2008
2:59 pm
From: Johnny Kuo
“I’m curious as to why dumbbell press can’t substitute for a regular barbell bench press. I would think that you could get a fuller range of motion with dumbbells and get a better workout from having to stabilize two independent weights.”
Johnny, the dumbell press is a fine drill but when you want to get more done with less you must choose only the exercises which allow you to use the most weight. This “irradiates” tension to other muscles and ups the systemic stress needed to stimulate muscle growth through elevated testosterone, etc.
December 19th, 2008
3:02 pm
From Peter:
“After reading this, I am extremely excited to go the gym. But what training advice would you offer to pitchers or quarterbacks who rely on shoulder strength in addition to this program? Thanks”
Peter, this is not a program for an athlete who simultaneously pursues another sport. After 5×5 of squats you will not be running too well. An athlete needs an “easy strength” lower volume plan such as the first workout in my bok “Power to the People!”
December 19th, 2008
3:54 pm
I used to follow a similar “bare basics” routine out of Stewart McRobert’s Hardgainer material. It espoused an even more infrequent workout schedule of 2 workouts a week or 2 every ten days even. It also used fewer sets, often only two or even one set per exercise per workout. I’m curious what you think about doing fewer sets with heavier weight. I am a particularly hard gainer myself so I know that even at only 5 reps, I would be sacrificing enormous quantities of weight in order to stretch it out over 5 sets.
I’m also curious about the advocation of not using 1-2 lb increments. Granted in the beginning you can very rapidly ramp up using 5-10 lb increments, it is very difficult to add even 5 lbs once you get close to your max weights for a given workout routine. After hitting the threshold of 5 lbs being too large of an increment, I have used so called “fractional weight plates” when close to my maxes to keep adding weight to the bar every week without losing reps. Perhaps it’s a bit nit picky, but I’m curious if there are any compelling reasons to go one route or the other beyond preference.
December 20th, 2008
3:10 am
Pavel, what a great article! What are some of your ideas on how to apply 80/20 to cardio training whether that be anaerobic or aerobic endurance?
December 20th, 2008
5:40 am
Can you do different variations of the lifts, say cycle deadlifts off plates, perhaps box squats, perhaps medium grip bench presses so that there is some slight variation and the ability to work on weak areas but the exercise is pretty much the same and you still get bang for your buck
December 20th, 2008
8:37 am
From Brian Brookshire:
“I used to follow a similar “bare basics” routine out of Stewart McRobert’s Hardgainer material. It espoused an even more infrequent workout schedule of 2 workouts a week or 2 every ten days even. It also used fewer sets, often only two or even one set per exercise per workout. I’m curious what you think about doing fewer sets with heavier weight. I am a particularly hard gainer myself so I know that even at only 5 reps, I would be sacrificing enormous quantities of weight in order to stretch it out over 5 sets.
I’m also curious about the advocation of not using 1-2 lb increments. Granted in the beginning you can very rapidly ramp up using 5-10 lb increments, it is very difficult to add even 5 lbs once you get close to your max weights for a given workout routine. After hitting the threshold of 5 lbs being too large of an increment, I have used so called “fractional weight plates” when close to my maxes to keep adding weight to the bar every week without losing reps. Perhaps it’s a bit nit picky, but I’m curious if there are any compelling reasons to go one route or the other beyond preference.”
Brian, many top US powerlifters like Karwoski and Coan have used 1-2 sets successfully. If it works for you -do it. Just don’t justify it with being a “hardgainer”; not a helpful mindset.
Small weight jumps are good for beginners, than things start breaking down. You end up spending too many workouts near your RM and you only have so many before you crash and drop off the peak. And you end up spinning your wheels too long in the beginning of the cycle. 2-5% 1RM jumps are optimal. If you want to learn more, read the “Very Progressive Overload” article in my Power to the People Monthly (www.PowertothePeopleMonthly.com).
December 20th, 2008
10:16 am
I’ve been leaning more towards this style as well. When lifting, I used to do ALL of the workouts. But I think it is more effective to more of the things that actually work.
December 20th, 2008
10:44 am
I’ve been doing a similar workout called Stronglifts 5×5. I’ve put on a lot of muscle and weight. These programs really work well.
December 20th, 2008
12:04 pm
Sounds like a great workout for those who hit a plateau in their strength or really want to pursue power lifting.
But for someone like me who wants very high endurance for surfing and the much more lean/cut look, its not very suitable long term. Plus a good mix of cardio and weight lifting is supposed to be much better for you health wise.
December 20th, 2008
2:06 pm
From Erick:
“Sounds like a great workout for those who hit a plateau in their strength or really want to pursue power lifting. But for someone like me who wants very high endurance for surfing and the much more lean/cut look, its not very suitable long term. Plus a good mix of cardio and weight lifting is supposed to be much better for you health wise.”
Erick, for you a kettlebell workout will be perfect. http://www.enterthekettlebell.com
December 20th, 2008
2:09 pm
4 weeks?
That’s quite an achievement :)
Thanks for sharing this tips.
Might come in handy if I plan to gain weight and build some muscle!
December 21st, 2008
12:16 am
Great Post. Merry X-Mas to you and your family!!!
Pura Vida
Jose Castro Frenzel
December 21st, 2008
10:04 am
[...] 4. La loi de pareto appliquée à la musculation [...]
December 21st, 2008
10:14 am
Thank you for the kind words, Pavel and Paul. Just a small note about the concerns of “too little” in the thread: Pavel is right when he says that something like just Deadlifts and Presses are enough for just about everybody. I have helped some women through tremendous physical transformations with just two lifts like these examples.
More is not better, more is simply more. A heavy deadlift or squat will literally spark your whole body (hormones, by the way, are best described, I was told, as “cascades,” like fireworks) into transforming. Doing 10,000 ab crunches will probably lead you to back issues and do little for the pot belly…but deadlifts and squats and presses, especially in a lower carb environment, will do more than hours and hours of fasting and aerboics…long term.
December 21st, 2008
12:25 pm
I have just come back from scouting the gym. There I found machines and spaces required to perform Pavel Tsatsouline’s program. I did only one quick rep for each of the three exercises. Then came home. It has been almost 2 hours but I feel Incredible. The workout as briefly as it was proved amazing.
My only concern is tweaking the program for my special circumstances. I am just 3 months out from meniscus surgery. only 20 % removed from the inside of my right leg. I’ll put about 80% of my max for the nxt three to four months and see the results.
I cant say enough the feeling these exercises give me writing this posting. I look forward to the next few months and anticipte what can happen.
Question to Pavel: Amazon says you cited the Warrior Diet in your Power to the People Book. What eating book would you recommend to a guy over 40 looking to stay trim and slim?
Once again think you to Tim and Pavel. These posts keep changing my life.
December 21st, 2008
1:48 pm
From Leonard Irwin:
“I have just come back from scouting the gym. There I found machines and spaces required to perform Pavel Tsatsouline’s program. I did only one quick rep for each of the three exercises. Then came home. It has been almost 2 hours but I feel Incredible. The workout as briefly as it was proved amazing. My only concern is tweaking the program for my special circumstances. I am just 3 months out from meniscus surgery. only 20 % removed from the inside of my right leg. I’ll put about 80% of my max for the nxt three to four months and see the results. I cant say enough the feeling these exercises give me writing this posting. I look forward to the next few months and anticipte what can happen.Question to Pavel: Amazon says you cited the Warrior Diet in your Power to the People Book. What eating book would you recommend to a guy over 40 looking to stay trim and slim?”
Leonard, ask your doctor about box squats; they are very easy on the knees. Learn the technique from westside-barbell.com. I have been on the Warrior Diet for 4 years or so and I love it. But I am not a nutrition expert.
Once again think you to Tim and Pavel. These posts keep changing my life.
December 22nd, 2008
1:27 am
A couple of questions from a swimming girl: would strong and big muscles gained by this be of any help in a 100 freestyle race? I need fast contraction, complex coordination and good shoulder and ankle mobility for a 1 minute race. Any suggestions how to accomplish that without spending 6 hours a week in gym? You see, there are of course a couple of kilometers to swim, too. Thanks!
December 22nd, 2008
6:05 am
Leonard Irwin – I am NO Dr., so please, take this as you will, but, I had my meniscus torn and 5 years later ACL torn –
I recovered best through lots of sled drags and box squats – these felt great. I also used bands for seated leg curls which can be performed during your warm up.
Just some friendly advice, please remember, I am no Doctor and am not telling you what to do, but, these 3 movements help speed recovery VERY quickly!
–Z–
December 22nd, 2008
11:37 am
Thank you Tim and Pavel for your insight. I can’t get enough of these articles.
December 22nd, 2008
12:13 pm
Focusing on the basic olympic lifts is leagues better than nautilus-machine training; but with the territory comes a need for in-depth description of the olympic lifts themselves, as well as the modality involved. You should look into Madcow’s 5×5 training, as well as Rippetoe’s Starting Strength.
December 22nd, 2008
1:33 pm
I have used the 80/20 rule for fitness for close to a decade. I got my start utilizing Pete Sisco’s methodology (less is more). You can find more here:
http://www.precisiontraining.com/articles.html.
My system is different now but it started with Sisco.
Here was my pre-plan to find a program that would work for me:
-need metrics to measure exactly what is going on to gauge process
1)Body fat percentage
2) Strength gains
3) photos and measurements
4) Time spent in the gym
I was very clear and truthful with myself about what I wanted and only worked to that end.
I use a spreadsheet that tracks my numbers. I spend 46 min in the gym every 5 weeks now. If I do anymore strength work than that I start seeing signs of strength loss or plateau.
I have picked up doing some “fun cardio” and yoga daily now but that is for a different goal (mind and health).
No matter what you do you have to be VERY clear about what you want and then ask “how can I measure this.”
Numbers tell a story.
December 22nd, 2008
1:42 pm
No sooner do start reading “4 Hour Workweek” than do I find a mention on Tim’s blog of the strength trainer who, after years of my searching, started me down the right path toward strength, flexibility, and superb health. Good on ya, Tim. Pavel is THE man in the strength training arena.
I bought “Power to the People (PTTP)” over 6 years ago after years of “3 sets of 8″ nonsense and getting mediocre results from the traditional bodybuilding type workouts. Using PTTP,my deadlift shot up from 275 pounds to 455 in a little over six months. My bench press went from 315 to 355. Using the “Russian Bear” protocol in PTTP I dropped 25 lbs while going from an XL to an XXL shirt.
The results from “Power to the People” convinced me to buy a kettlebell. I now own ten of them. If they didn’t work I’d still only own one.
I have invested, yes INVESTED, at least a couple thousand dollars in Pavel’s books, DVDs, and Kettlebells. I ain’t done yet, either!
I’m now 45 years old, 6′ and 225 lbs. On 12 Dec, ten days ago, I deadlifted 555 lbs. It went up fairly easily. I’m in the Military, I can’t afford to be weak. Pavel’s methods have ALWAYS delivered. I’m not only stronger, but also healthier, more flexible, and TONS more confident!!
Check out his Publisher’s website: http://www.dragondoor.com It’ll change you for the better.
Power to you!!
December 22nd, 2008
11:25 pm
From Aspirinha:
“A couple of questions from a swimming girl: would strong and big muscles gained by this be of any help in a 100 freestyle race? I need fast contraction, complex coordination and good shoulder and ankle mobility for a 1 minute race. Any suggestions how to accomplish that without spending 6 hours a week in gym? You see, there are of course a couple of kilometers to swim, too. Thanks”
Aspirinha, this is not appropriate training for a swimmer. Please consult with Kenneth Jay who is the strength coach for the Danish Olympic swimming team. His e-mail is kettlebells.dk@gmail.com
December 22nd, 2008
11:27 pm
From Mike Capper:
“Can you do different variations of the lifts, say cycle deadlifts off plates, perhaps box squats, perhaps medium grip bench presses so that there is some slight variation and the ability to work on weak areas but the exercise is pretty much the same and you still get bang for your buck.”
Mike, yes but you should stay with the same variation for 6 weeks.
December 22nd, 2008
11:28 pm
From Alex:
“Pavel, what a great article! What are some of your ideas on how to apply 80/20 to cardio training whether that be anaerobic or aerobic endurance?”
Alex, as you would expect, I am partial towards kettlebells.
December 22nd, 2008
11:33 pm
Aspirinha -
There are two books that you should read by Pavel, and one by Mark Rippetoe. First is Power to the People, which is a good book on basic strength training, it includes a program which works and is very abbreviated (~20 minutes per workout 2-5 times a week), and will not make you gain any weight size (particularly since you probably have a hard time gaining weight from swimming training). Second is Relax Into Stretch, which will show you just about everything you’ll ever need to know about flexibility. Finally, Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore. This book is invaluable for it’s teaching of the proper Back Squat, Bench Press, Press, Deadlift and Power Clean.
Of course being stronger will increase your swimming speeds, just as being stronger would help a short/middle distance runner! Maximal strength training increases your inter- and intra- muscular coordination and force production abilities.
December 22nd, 2008
11:38 pm
Comrades, thank you for your kind words about my article!
Power to you!
December 23rd, 2008
12:32 am
Is it correct to say that this exercise regime and kettlebells are mutually exclusive?
December 23rd, 2008
8:35 am
From Bob Smith:
“Is it correct to say that this exercise regime and kettlebells are mutually exclusive?”
Bob, not so but the KB regimen should not be too demanding. Just light snatches or swings for conditioning and get-ups for shoulder health. Like the “Enter the Kettlebell!” Program Minimum.
December 23rd, 2008
10:21 am
May I ask a couple of questions?
First, how would you recommend to adopt this routine in the case of 1 or 2 training sessions per week? And would it cause a large decrease in efficiency or not?
Second. What’s the point of “light” exercises? From everything I heard before you should usually give the muscle the maximum possible load, but after that give maximum possible conditions to rest and recover, including time and the absence of the stress between the training sessions. So are they really required and so effective? If yes, then why? And how “light” should these light exercises should be, how do I calculate the weights? And do I do them if my muscles are still sick from the last training?
And the final, third question. Is it ok and is it a good idea to add chin-ups before DL (my priority is wide back), add press-ups on bars after BP (for better load of chest and triceps) and add biceps curls after SQ (to give some stress to arms as well). I know that supposedly basic exercises will give enough load to your arms as well, but still I’m afraid it’s not enough and once a week or even once 1.5 week it wouldn’t be a bad idea to train my biceps as well.
So what do you think? Thank you very much in advance!
December 23rd, 2008
10:57 am
Awesome post! I am always trying to revolve my training programs around this sort of concept. With my programs, however, I always tend to add sets of abs and calves as supersets with the bigger exercises. I also usually include rows and pulls ups. Often I’ll even do 2 sets of dumbbell bicep curls for fun. Aside from those modifications, I definitely support this type of training. I think I’ll even formulate a workout program around these principles. Thanks
December 23rd, 2008
11:34 am
From Maxim:
“First, how would you recommend to adopt this routine in the case of 1 or 2 training sessions per week? And would it cause a large decrease in efficiency or not? Second. What’s the point of “light” exercises? From everything I heard before you should usually give the muscle the maximum possible load, but after that give maximum possible conditions to rest and recover, including time and the absence of the stress between the training sessions. So are they really required and so effective? If yes, then why? And how “light” should these light exercises should be, how do I calculate the weights? And do I do them if my muscles are still sick from the last training? And the final, third question. Is it ok and is it a good idea to add chin-ups before DL (my priority is wide back), add press-ups on bars after BP (for better load of chest and triceps) and add biceps curls after SQ (to give some stress to arms as well). I know that supposedly basic exercises will give enough load to your arms as well, but still I’m afraid it’s not enough and once a week or even once 1.5 week it wouldn’t be a bad idea to train my biceps as well.
Maxim, one workout a week will not work. Two will squeak by: SQ heavy, BP heavy on on one day, SQ light, BP light, DL heavy on another day.
Light training days are important for many reasons. All successful strength plans have unloading days built into them one way or another. An explanation would be too long; please refer to my book “Power to the People!” or the “Periodization Demystified” chapter in my book “Beyond Bodybuilding” (www.beyondbpdybuilding.com). Don’t add or subtract any exercises; Faleev’s is a system, not just a collection of exercises, sets, and reps.
December 23rd, 2008
12:38 pm
Pareto suggests lifting really heavy things for a couple of hours Sunday morning with some friends, to me; squats, deads, presses, chins… maybe benches and power curls if there are pretty girls around. More fun and less time than several to many shorter workouts per week.
December 23rd, 2008
6:33 pm
5×5 works fellas.
When I began lifting I was almost 19 and followed very typical body builder routines. Chest/Shoulders/Tris, Back/Bis, Legs. Chest/Bis, Back/Tris, Legs, Shoulders….all those. I did get bigger AND stronger (as all beginners do), but I hit a wall pretty quickly. Too much volume, too many sets till failure, too much intensity (weight load). I just didn’t have the neural capacity to keep this type of training up. I would experience fantastic pumps, but no *real* size gains.
My body exploded when I adopted 5×5 methods, however. I rarely got a super huge pump, but most leading experts would argue that a pump is useless anyways! What I DID accomplish with this training was more pounds on the scale and a leaner, stronger body. A routine is only as good as the time it takes your body to adapt to it. Using progressive overload with 5×5 methods makes it difficult to adapt, especially if you’re changing your rep schema like the article suggests! You’re also allowing for maximum muscle fibre recruitment through maximal lifting, as well as upward fluctuations in Test! (although, i think this effect is overrated. test levels peak during the heavy lift, and then drop lower soon after)
Training until failure is only useful under the following conditions: you’re training very infrequently (HIT), you’re purposely overtraining (for perhaps a week or 2), or you are anabolically enhanced. I would also add that training until failure on small muscle, isolated muscle groups can be alright. In order to handle regular training-till-failure routines, you need to develop the neuromuscular capability to do so.
Good read, but that’s to be expect when it’s Pavel! No discussion of weightlifting is complete without citing him!
December 24th, 2008
2:55 am
More great work by Pavel.
I’ve been training many of Canada’s top athletes, and ordinary folks, using Pavel’s Kettlebell (RKC) and “PTP” methods. The results have been, and continue to be, fantastic…the best I’ve ever seen.
Cole Summers
Team Canada Strength Coach
December 24th, 2008
8:50 pm
Tim, I had heard a lot about you but only just found your site and its great. Tonight I read both the Pavel post along with the one from last year about your experience with HIT training which produced such outstanding results.
While the approaches have some similarities, they are clearly much different appproaches – HIT has fewer sets to failure with a larger number of exercises, Pavel insists on 5 sets for a small number of exercises. Interestingly, neither one suggests the clean, which many fitness writers think is the best overall exercise.
Let us know your thoughts on the appropriate use of each technique and your experience with each.
Thanks,
Tim
December 25th, 2008
2:22 am
I like how the article takes into consideration the holistic adaptation of the body. Shorter training sessions leave energy in the tank that can be used to adapt so that there is a progressive overload in the next workout.
I trained with Power to the People protocol, dead lifts and benches for 2 sets of 5, in 2002 and 2003 and can attest that I made easy gains and felt fantastic after the workouts – more energized instead of drained.
It is good that this type of training is gaining wider exposure.
December 26th, 2008
9:14 am
Great article.
Thanks Tim and Pavel. Pavel really impressed that you taking time to respond to everyone.
To the people that are worried about not getting their cardio in (for fat burning I’m assuming), or spending a loooong time at the gym, and are not concerned with becoming powerlifters.
I spend less than 30 minutes in the gym each day 4/5 days a week. I do no cardio- but the workouts that I’m doing have me a sweaty mess in less than 10 minutes and keep me at less than 10% body fat.
The solution that my workout partner and I currently use is density training(Vince Gironda was big proponent of this type of training). Density is how much you weight you lift within a tightly regulated period. Knowing how much weight x how many reps within your limited time, means you can easily track how much work you are able to do in each workout.
Set a limited time and do as many sets as you can of a set amount of reps keeping close track of how long you rest.
For example: 5 minutes of incline press – take rests of between 10-20 seconds and do no more than 5 reps. The weight needs to be heavy enough that you won’t be able to do 5 reps in your last set. Don’t go to heavy though- or you won’t be able to maximise your reps in the set time.
If you want to go heavier- take a longer time- say 9 minutes with sets of 2 or 3 and rest 40 seconds.
Go at it with intensity- at the end of my brief workout I’m cooked. One body part per 5 days a week. At my current level of intensity I couldn’t do another body part on the same day at the same level of intensity.
All of this gives a brief, very hard workout which maximises output of growth hormone, testosterone, and really speeds up your metabolism.
On this program I have gained sized and rehabbed a shoulder injury (not lifting related) because I was able to use weights that would have been too light for conventional lifting routines, but became heavy enough over the set period that I couldn’t complete full sets towards the end.
Before I start I’ll do a brief warmup of joint mobility calf and ab work, and I’ll stretch afterward then I’m done. Short and very sweet.
December 26th, 2008
10:51 am
@Zero Can’t go wrong with Vince.
December 27th, 2008
5:57 am
Closing out the first week of trying this, I’m sure I am not the only person feeling that slight pang of guilt when leaving the gym.
I’d gotten used to doing alternating lifts in pairs with 60 seconds rest between, so waiting 5-10+ minutes between sets is quite a foreign concept. At least I’ll go through a lot of books and magazines this way. Thanks TIm and Pavel for sharing!
December 27th, 2008
3:12 pm
A couple things need to be explained for this program to make sense to folks not familiar with these concepts.
The reason this program advocates focusing on only exercise per session is because the body is limited in the amount of adaptation that can be achieved from the stimulus of the training session or series of sessions. If, for example, you train to develop strength, speed, endurance, and coordination with lots of different exercises in one session, the body’s adaptation response will be limited. But if you train to develop only one motor ability through one motor pattern, the body will recognize the specific training stimulus and adapt accordingly. Hence gains are more pronounced in focused programs.
5 x 5 is not the end-all-be-all of repetition series in my opinion, but it works because it tend to be close to the point at which total mechanical work and total load are optimized. Put another way, 5 x 5 will (often) allow you to lift the heaviest weight the most amount of times. This will increase strength, and is a very effective way to elicit hormonal and metabolic effects that build muscle and burn fat.
To Pavel: I loved Naked Warrior and I perform and recommend your exercises all the time! You’re an inspiration!
December 29th, 2008
6:23 am
Thanks to Tim and Pavel for this article and its interpretation! I’ve been looking for something that will compliment my somewhat sedentary (and time crunched) lifestyle – this seems like it should work out well since I could stand to gain a few pounds of muscle as well as lose a few pounds of fat. Since I’m new to these types of lifts, what is the most efficient way to discover my starting weights for the lifts?
Thanks!
December 29th, 2008
7:17 am
How about a 80/20 to stretching for martial artists? ;-)
December 29th, 2008
7:21 pm
So please correct me if I’m wrong but…
If a workout based on a progressive overload system of 5 x 5 is great for strength would I be correct in thinking that a progressive overload workout plan based on 5 x 10 would be better for building size?
December 30th, 2008
8:49 am
Size is a result of sufficient fatigue and consequent adaptation or super compensation.
Set schemes like 3×3 and 5×5 work great for strength but not for mass. So, no 5×10 is not good for size. It will shift your focus away from the important things, which are:
Focus on the muscle. Slow down the lift so that you lift with the muscle and not with momentum. Lift a little bit lighter than when lifting for strength.
Do approximately 6-9 sets of 8-12 reps per muscle group weekly.
Focus on progressive overload – doing a little bit more each time you train.
December 30th, 2008
11:19 am
I agree to what Pavel has to say. I can see how somebody with a clean diet can follow this workout and obtain a nice body with great strength to bodyweight ratio. What is not covered is any type of conditioning or cardiovascular training that should be done to prevent heart diseases. These workouts prescribed last an hour with at least 50 minutes of it being rest. Thats a total of 50 minutes of exercise a week and not what I would consider an active lifestyle. There must be some type of conditioning for the heart to compliment this workout. Such as, sprinting or interval training with agility drills.
December 30th, 2008
10:00 pm
Pavel,
Should we increase the weight each set (building to a “target” weight for the final set) or maintain the same weight for all 5 sets?
Thanks,
Eric
December 31st, 2008
2:51 pm
You know how you can tell this was a really good blog post?
When other fitness “gurus” start swiping.
Check out Alywn Cosgroves latest article (Hacking Your Strength Training) over at T-nation and tell me he didn’t write that article after reading this one.
December 31st, 2008
6:48 pm
Pavel,
If doing multiple sets, should stretching be done between sets or only at the end of the weight training routine? Ive heard that stretching before heavy training weakens the muscle.
January 1st, 2009
7:21 am
Hi Yavor,
Thanks for taking the time to reply….
Sorry, it may have been the way I phrased my initial question but I’m still a little confused from your answer…
As you say focus on 6-9 sets of 8-12 reps per body part per week with an emphasis on progressive overload for size.
So doing 5 sets of 10 for each body part once a week and focusing on Progresive Overload ie. every workout doing more (even if only by one more rep) until 5 sets of 10 are completed and then increase the weight for next time.
This would not be good for getting big?
January 1st, 2009
7:38 am
What I like to do is just focus on key lifts, like outlined in this post. Pick the exercises, something like deadlifts, squats, and bench. Then when I am in the gym I log them on http://overtrainer.com/ . Next time I am in the gym I check what I did last time and go from there, its simple, effective and quick.
January 1st, 2009
9:15 am
hi Pavel,
What if you have a chronically bad back which makes squats and deadlifts not possible? What 2 exercises would you substitute? Leg presses and pullups?
thanks.
January 2nd, 2009
1:31 am
Stephen:
“Hi Yavor,
Thanks for taking the time to reply….
Sorry, it may have been the way I phrased my initial question but I’m still a little confused from your answer…
As you say focus on 6-9 sets of 8-12 reps per body part per week with an emphasis on progressive overload for size.
So doing 5 sets of 10 for each body part once a week and focusing on Progresive Overload ie. every workout doing more (even if only by one more rep) until 5 sets of 10 are completed and then increase the weight for next time.
This would not be good for getting big?”
Not really, muscular hypertrophy is not significantly stimulated in sets past the first or second. This is why HIT (High Intensity Training) and HST (Hypertrophy Specific Training) both use use only 1-2 sets exercise. There is GVT (German Volume Training), which uses primarily 10×10. Things like this do work for size gains, but are not size specific, but rather Strength-Endurance specific.
January 2nd, 2009
9:58 am
Thanks for all of the great information. Very inspiring. I am training for my first Sprint Triathlon and was going to use the 5×5 regimen for my strength training. Is that appropriate or should I consider a kettlebell program instead (which one)? Thanks in advance.
Brian
January 2nd, 2009
9:28 pm
@Stephen
the thing is, to work for hypertrophy, it’s not good to focus on a number, but on fatiguing the muscle.
So it’s not about completing those 5 sets of 10. It’s about blasting the muscle. When the weight feels too easy, it’s time to add more weight – that’s when progressive overload comes.
So, 5×10 works. But it’s the wrong thing to focus your mind on.
January 4th, 2009
8:42 pm
Dear Pavel,
I train in muay thai (thai boxing), and olympic wrestling. I want to increase my strength and explosiveness in wrestling.
Should I do this type of workout, or is there a better one for a wrestler?
Would this affect me negatively for muay thai competition?
Much thanks,
Vladimir D
January 5th, 2009
6:41 am
Tim and Pavel both seem to derive much of their physical presence and strength from their mind, yes, their mind. Pavel may have the edge just from his incredibly flowing mullet however. Good story.
January 5th, 2009
11:10 am
Vlad D,
This program is very specific to powerlifting, where conditioning has almost no impact on performance. At better program might be one found in Power To The People (plenty of room at add conditioning) or Enter the Kettlebell.
January 5th, 2009
2:00 pm
Yavor wrote
“Set schemes like 3×3 and 5×5 work great for strength but not for mass. ”
I can guarantee you that most naturals will gain more muscle mass from such protocols as opposed to typical “bodybuilding” rep schemes.
Most people f* up and ovetrain when attempting the traditional methods of mass gaining. Trust me.
A sound protocol like 5 x 5 = less chance of screwing up, better long term progress.
That’s my experience as a personal trainer with numerous, very happy clients.
January 5th, 2009
10:35 pm
From Vlad D:
“I train in muay thai (thai boxing), and olympic wrestling. I want to increase my strength and explosiveness in wrestling. Should I do this type of workout, or is there a better one for a wrestler? Would this affect me negatively for muay thai competition?”
Vladimir, the Faleev schedule is too demanding to be done with a second and especially a third sport. You need a lower volume regimen such as “Power to the People!” (the standard version, not the “bear”).
January 5th, 2009
10:39 pm
From Brian:
“I am training for my first Sprint Triathlon and was going to use the 5×5 regimen for my strength training. Is that appropriate or should I consider a kettlebell program instead (which one)?”
Brian, kettlebells would be much better
January 5th, 2009
10:39 pm
From Brian:
“I am training for my first Sprint Triathlon and was going to use the 5×5 regimen for my strength training. Is that appropriate or should I consider a kettlebell program instead (which one)?”
Brian, kettlebells would be much better.
January 5th, 2009
10:41 pm
From Larry:
“What if you have a chronically bad back which makes squats and deadlifts not possible? What 2 exercises would you substitute? Leg presses and pullups?”
Larry, I suggest that you see a doctor and then get the book “Ultimate Fitness and Performance” by Prof. Stuart McGill, #1 spine biomechanist in the world, from his site http://www.backfitpro.com. Meanwhile leg preses and pullups will have to do. Power and healt to you!
January 5th, 2009
10:43 pm
From: Davro Papps:
“If doing multiple sets, should stretching be done between sets or only at the end of the weight training routine? Ive heard that stretching before heavy training weakens the muscle.”
Davro, only if you do special “loaded stretches”. Otherwise stretch afterwards.
January 5th, 2009
10:44 pm
From Eric:
“Should we increase the weight each set (building to a “target” weight for the final set) or maintain the same weight for all 5 sets?”
Eric, in this program you stay with the same weight for all 5 work sets. If you must, you may do warmup sets beforehand.
January 5th, 2009
10:46 pm
From Dallas:
“I agree to what Pavel has to say. I can see how somebody with a clean diet can follow this workout and obtain a nice body with great strength to bodyweight ratio. What is not covered is any type of conditioning or cardiovascular training that should be done to prevent heart diseases. These workouts prescribed last an hour with at least 50 minutes of it being rest. Thats a total of 50 minutes of exercise a week and not what I would consider an active lifestyle. There must be some type of conditioning for the heart to compliment this workout. Such as, sprinting or interval training with agility drills.”
Dallas, of course, cardio is something you need to do in addition. Just don’t overdo it when strength is your priority.
January 5th, 2009
10:49 pm
From Stephen:
“So please correct me if I’m wrong but… If a workout based on a progressive overload system of 5 x 5 is great for strength would I be correct in thinking that a progressive overload workout plan based on 5 x 10 would be better for building size?”
Stephen, 10×5 perhaps but not 5×10.
According to the energetic theory of muscle hypertrophy, a muscle cell possesses a limited amount of energy, or ATP, at any given moment. It is spent two ways: protein synthesis and mechanical work. Normally, a muscle is in an anabolic/catabolic balance. It resembles a pool with the “in” and “out” pipes of the same size. Whatever proteins are degraded by your lame daily activities get replaced. In contrast, when a muscle is forced to contract against great resistance AND perform a large amount of work, it uses most of its available ATP supply. Consequently, less energy can be spent on protein re-synthesis. The catabolic processes start prevailing and the muscle mass is reduced. In the aftermath of this destruction the muscle cell gets a chance to channel its energy to anabolism. It just goes nuts and synthesizes more protein than you had before the workout! Just in case, for the rainy day.
It becomes apparent that weights that are too light do not open the “pipes” to “drain the pool” wide enough, weights that are too heavy do not open them long enough, and excessive rest periods allow the “pool” to get “refilled” thus negating all the “drainage” done.
That fancy explanation could be summed up simply: get a pump with big weights and you will grow.
January 5th, 2009
10:51 pm
From Christoffer:
“How about a 80/20 to stretching for martial artists? ;-)”
Christoffer, practice easy stretching throughout the day every day and once a week hit it hard.
January 5th, 2009
10:53 pm
From Starting Off:
“Since I’m new to these types of lifts, what is the most efficient way to discover my starting weights for the lifts?”
Starting Off, pick up a very light weight and do 5 reps. Rest. Add 10 pounds and repeat. Keep repeating until you have to work to get 5 (but don’t have to kill yourself). That is your weight for the next workout.
January 6th, 2009
7:07 am
Pavel,
You stated that the bench would respond to lower volume than the overhead press. I have been using this routine with the side press – does this also require more volume? In the past, I have usually pressed five times per week, although I did make progess pressing twice a week on a Verkhoshansky routine.
January 6th, 2009
10:20 am
Pavel,
Thanks for the feedback. I just order the ETK starter kit and look forward to its arrival. One more quick question. Can you suggest a kettlebell program that utilizes Faleev’s Nothing Extra (80/20) principles? Thanks again.
January 6th, 2009
11:40 am
From Brian:
“I just order the ETK starter kit and look forward to its arrival. One more quick question. Can you suggest a kettlebell program that utilizes Faleev’s Nothing Extra (80/20) principles?”
Brian, ETK focuses on a very limited number of exercises so it complies with Pareto’s law. As for Parkinson’s law, you could enter the http://www.tacticalstrengthchallenge.com competition, at least the snatch portion of it.
January 7th, 2009
1:58 am
@Martin
I agree with you – if they know what they are doing.
Dude, you are pretty strong, so you can guide your clients and push them as much as they need to be pushed. Which is a lot if they are to succeed gaining a good body with strength training.
To look big with 5×5 you should get to like 300-400-500 lbs in the 3 power lifts.
Most newbies starting 5×5 underestimate this. On the other hand, gyms are full of decently sized men that don’t have a clue about strength training.
They have been blitzing their muscles with split training.
So yeah – 5×5 is great if you know where you need to get with it – which is to get pretty damn strong.
Also, it is harder to push yourself on deadlifts, squats and benches than it is on the split training exercises.
January 7th, 2009
7:12 am
Pavel, you recommend not combining the 5×5 workouts with training for another sport. Why? What are the dangers/risks of doing this?
I’m a distance runner and completed my first 2 week of the 5×5 program. Everything went smoothly. I’d run for 4-5 miles then immediately perform one of the 3 lifts.
January 7th, 2009
10:13 am
From Tom Haddon:
“You stated that the bench would respond to lower volume than the overhead press. I have been using this routine with the side press – does this also require more volume? In the past, I have usually pressed five times per week, although I did make progess pressing twice a week on a Verkhoshansky routine.”
Tom, volume is a weekly matter so doing a couple of sets 5 days a week adds up.
If you make gains on a low volume plan by all means keep doing it. Whatever the reasons, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
January 7th, 2009
2:41 pm
From mikew:
“Pavel, you recommend not combining the 5×5 workouts with training for another sport. Why? What are the dangers/risks of doing this? I’m a distance runner and completed my first 2 week of the 5×5 program. Everything went smoothly. I’d run for 4-5 miles then immediately perform one of the 3 lifts.”
Mike, the schedule will become very demanding once the weights climb. Your body has limited adaptation resources and you need to focus them on your primary sport. “Power to the People!” is a good strength program for shorter distance runners. http://www.bearpowered.com tells you how LA coach Barry Ross brought 17-year old Allison Felix to the fastest 200m in the world with PTP, a shorter and less demanding plan than 5×5 with squats.
January 7th, 2009
4:31 pm
Pavel,
I have been doing Starting strength for about 6 months. I was going to try this program. My last deadlift for starting strength was 1×5x315. what do you think would be a good weight to start for 5×5. to me, 5×5 accross seems like a lot of volume for a deadlift.
Thanks
January 8th, 2009
8:18 am
Pavel,
Thanks for the great advice on starting weights! The article and comments don’t really say how fast the movements should be. I usually try not to go too fast, but move at a reasonable pace. 5 reps take 30-40 seconds or so at that rate. What do you suggest?
Thanks!
January 8th, 2009
9:30 am
From Mike W:
“I have been doing Starting strength for about 6 months. I was going to try this program. My last deadlift for starting strength was 1×5×315. what do you think would be a good weight to start for 5×5. to me, 5×5 accross seems like a lot of volume for a deadlift.”
Mike, start with 275. It is a lot of volume -until you adapt to it.
January 8th, 2009
9:35 am
From Starting Off:
“The article and comments don’t really say how fast the movements should be. I usually try not to go too fast, but move at a reasonable pace. 5 reps take 30-40 seconds or so at that rate. What do you suggest?”
Starting Off, rep speed is subject of ongoing debate in the powerlifting community. Some insist that you must explode, others prefer the training rep pace which matches that of a max lift -unrushed but not exaggeratedly slow. Both camps have science and records to back their points of view. If you want to dig deep and make up your own mind, read my http://www.powertothepeoplemonthly.com, a newsletter for serious powerlifters. If you just want to lift, choose the second option -a steady, unrushed, but not super slow pace.
January 8th, 2009
5:00 pm
[...] Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ pounds to your lifts Discussion on Catalyst Athletics [...]
January 8th, 2009
6:53 pm
Thanks for great article,I was searching for pavels article and came across this website.Now i would have to read the 4 hour workweek sounds like a great book.
Pavel,
Would this sort of program work for somebody trying to loose weight without loosing the muscle mass.Anyway i have started on the following routine and added 20 Minutes on treadmill after the workouts.
Monday –heavy squat (SQ)
Tuesday –heavy benchpress (BP)
Wednesday –heavy deadlift (DL)
Thursday – light SQ
Friday –light BP
Saturday –off
Sunday –off
January 9th, 2009
12:14 am
From Bobby S:
“Would this sort of program work for somebody trying to loose weight without loosing the muscle mass.”
Bobby, for the time being you will be better off with a less demanding muscle building schedule (e.g. 3×5) and a demanding conditioning plan (e.g. kettlebells, sprints, etc.).
January 9th, 2009
6:33 am
This program would work for beginners and for beginners ONLY. I would say this program will plateu your bench at 1.2-1.4xBW forever. Ukranian powerlifters like Kutcher DO NOT train like that even the slightest. Here is a typical “Bench day” of a WPC Ukranian lifter (I’m trained by one, and he personally knows many lifters : Yevhen Pavlov – equipped BP 285kg at 140kg bodyweight @ WPC Worlds Miami 2008 – he trains WITH him, and many others) :
1. Bench Press (po sheme) light,med,heavy weeks for example 90% 3×3, 85% 4×4, etc.
2. Bench Press Assistance (alternate floor press, band press, static-explosive contrast, speed bench every week)
3. Incline Press
4. Shoulder Presses
You absolutely CAN’T progress in powerlifts past beginner level without ALTERNATING INTENSITIES and certainly assistance work!
Currently Ukranian lifters use either this high-volume low-frequency protocols like I’ve listed OR classical Sheiko-inspired med-intensity high-frequency protocols.
January 9th, 2009
6:49 am
Pavel,
Thanks very much for the reply.
I have managed to set up a very basic floor press apparatus (barbell across two sturdy supports), so I intend to try this movement in future. I haven’t ‘benched’ in years, but am keen to stick to the program as closely as you describe it.
My other lifts are zercher DL and zercher SQ. I use these because I train at home and do not have the money or space for a rack. In addition, I find that lifting 90kg for 5×5 ZDL is more demanding than regular DL of the same weight and I am forced to train on wooden floors, so piling on weight endlessly is not always an option for me. Do you think that these are acceptable substitues for the three lifts in the program?
Thank you.
January 9th, 2009
6:53 am
Pavel,
One last question!
I have read that Jack Reape recommends a three weeks forward, one week back approach. I have used this for my last two or three cycles and quite liked it. Would you recommend similar for this routine? For example, oush for three weeks; on week four, drop to 66% volume and 66% intensity; build up again from week five?
Thanks.
Tom
January 9th, 2009
9:56 am
From Tom Haddon:
“I have read that Jack Reape recommends a three weeks forward, one week back approach. I have used this for my last two or three cycles and quite liked it. Would you recommend similar for this routine? For example, oush for three weeks; on week four, drop to 66% volume and 66% intensity; build up again from week five?”
Tom, usually I am opposed to any changes in a tested training plan until the person has been on it for months and has some data to analyze. Your change is simple enough and tested; go for it.
January 9th, 2009
4:43 pm
Pavel and Tim,
Great post, Tim.
This question is for either of you. I do a 2 hour martial arts training session 2 times a week. It’s pretty intense and exhausting. Would a PL style 5×5 workout interfere with my training there or would doing the aerobic combat work interfere with getting the most out of the strength training? Keep up the good work.
January 10th, 2009
4:06 pm
To Pavel Tsatsouline,
I saw that you really enjoyed the Warrior diet, but I had never heard of it. I went and got the book and I loved the concept… I started doing it and I feel great! Ori Hofmekler’s ideas really make sense and by God, I feel so much better during the day, and I have already lost a decent amount of weight (for the first few days at least). The point that he makes that I like the most is that all other diets are based upon restriction (all the time). His is only based upon restriction during the day… I feel great after I eat a complete meal in the evening, and I can actually think during the day (I am a college student). As I have only been on the diet for a few days I can only imagine what the day-to-day will be like when I really get used to it. Thank you for mentioning it!!
To Tim Ferriss,
Ori Hofmekler makes a very interesting point in the book, the Warrior Diet. The more recent trend is to eat 3 to 6 smaller meals a day (rather than his one large meal), and he says (and it is logically obvious) that eating this way takes up a lot of time each day. You might do your own evaluation and add it to “The 4-Hour Body” section on this blog. JAT.
Brandon
January 13th, 2009
5:06 pm
From Fortis:
“This program would work for beginners and for beginners ONLY. I would say this program will plateu your bench at 1.2-1.4xBW forever. Ukranian powerlifters like Kutcher DO NOT train like that even the slightest. Here is a typical “Bench day” of a WPC Ukranian lifter (I’m trained by one, and he personally knows many lifters : Yevhen Pavlov – equipped BP 285kg at 140kg bodyweight @ WPC Worlds Miami 2008 – he trains WITH him, and many others) :
1. Bench Press (po sheme) light,med,heavy weeks for example 90% 3×3, 85% 4×4, etc.
2. Bench Press Assistance (alternate floor press, band press, static-explosive contrast, speed bench every week)
3. Incline Press
4. Shoulder Presses
You absolutely CAN’T progress in powerlifts past beginner level without ALTERNATING INTENSITIES and certainly assistance work!
Currently Ukranian lifters use either this high-volume low-frequency protocols like I’ve listed OR classical Sheiko-inspired med-intensity high-frequency protocols.”
Fortis, you are correct, an more experienced lifter has to cycle. Faleev has his own scheme: several weeks of 5×5, several of 4×4, several of 6-4-2-1 but this is just one of many options.
Ukrainians have many training systems. Leonid Kotendzha for instance, the coach who has trained Vitaly Papazov to break Kaz’s 23 year IPF total record, had the latter do 800-900 lifts in each of the three competition lifts in the 60-77.5% intensity zone during the preparatory period often doing 5×5 with 75% 1RM in both the SQ and the BP on the same day.
Band presses and such are not something a beginner to intermediate lifter should worry about.
January 13th, 2009
5:08 pm
From Tom Haddon:
“My other lifts are zercher DL and zercher SQ. I use these because I train at home and do not have the money or space for a rack. In addition, I find that lifting 90kg for 5×5 ZDL is more demanding than regular DL of the same weight and I am forced to train on wooden floors, so piling on weight endlessly is not always an option for me. Do you think that these are acceptable substitues for the three lifts in the program?”
Tom, I love Zerchers but I would do either ZDLs or ZSQs, not both.
January 13th, 2009
5:10 pm
From Andrew Neely:
“I do a 2 hour martial arts training session 2 times a week. It’s pretty intense and exhausting. Would a PL style 5×5 workout interfere with my training there or would doing the aerobic combat work interfere with getting the most out of the strength training?”
Andrew, if you attempt to follow the 5×5 plan and train MA hard you will just compromise both. Either find a less demanding strength training schedule (see my above answers) or take it easy with MA.
January 13th, 2009
6:33 pm
Pavel: I just bought Power to the people book and Video. My goal is to gain strenght but loose fat at the same time. I attend a well equiped GYM but no so sure about doing deadlifts and Squats by my self, since theres no good trainer at the gym. Should I go forward following the video lessons. I havent found any PL trainer in Mexico and theres no PL Competitions either. (I`m sure this is a problem in many countries). Another thing wich confuses me is that the routine in Tim post talks about 3 escercises and your book talks mainly about two. I really need a 80/20 routine for building strenght while loosing fat. What do you recommend, Thanks in advance for your feeedback and excellent support.
January 13th, 2009
6:48 pm
@Fortis:
You said: “You absolutely CAN’T progress in powerlifts past beginner level without ALTERNATING INTENSITIES”
You do realize that this program has both heavy and light days, right?
In fact, another term for switching back and forth between heavy and light days is ALTERNATING INTENSITIES.
Weird, huh?
;)
January 13th, 2009
11:42 pm
From Vamerben:
“Pavel: I just bought Power to the people book and Video. My goal is to gain strenght but loose fat at the same time. I attend a well equiped GYM but no so sure about doing deadlifts and Squats by my self, since theres no good trainer at the gym. Should I go forward following the video lessons. I havent found any PL trainer in Mexico and theres no PL Competitions either. (I`m sure this is a problem in many countries). Another thing wich confuses me is that the routine in Tim post talks about 3 escercises and your book talks mainly about two. I really need a 80/20 routine for building strenght while loosing fat. What do you recommend, Thanks in advance for your feeedback and excellent support.”
Vamerben, neither Faleev’s plan nor mine focuses on fat loss. You may do moderate cardio in addition but it still will not be the focus.
If you still chose to pursue PTP right now, consider hiring a coach to review your form online. Mark Reifkind is a former coach PL Team USA. rifstonian@yahoo.com
January 14th, 2009
1:37 am
Pavel,
Thanks again for the great article and your great responses to all the questions here. What is your opinion on making larger than 10 lb increases in weight if the workout from one week to the next gets easier, even with the increase in weight?
January 14th, 2009
6:50 am
Pavel,
You said not to use both ZDL and ZSQ in this program. Is this because they use the same bar position and thereby work the upper body muscles in a similar fashion?
I would like to use ZSQ, as I feel my squat is weak in comparison to my deadlift. Would I be losing some of the effect on the posterior chain, or does the ZSQ adequately work lower back, hamstrings etc?
Would you recommend ZDL or ZSQ as the best bang for the buck?
Presumably, choosing one over the other would mean dropping to four days a week of heavy and light floor press and ZSQ.
January 14th, 2009
6:53 am
Pavel,
As a follow up to the above, would a barbell power snatch with no knee dip be an acceptable alternative?
January 14th, 2009
9:27 am
From Tom Haddon:
“Would a barbell power snatch with no knee dip be an acceptable alternative”
Tom, because the snatch is a quicker lift it requires totally different loading parameters. Try snatch grip DLs, they are a lot harder and call for less weight than regular DLs.
January 14th, 2009
7:51 pm
When during Faleev’s weekly cycle would be an appropriate time to integrate light kettlebell training?
January 15th, 2009
2:41 am
Pavel,
I’m finding my grip slipping when doing deadlifts (so far I’ve been able to hang on). Do you have any suggestions for supplemental grip training to help with this?
Thanks!
January 15th, 2009
5:38 am
I have recently started weightlifting again after many years of no exercise. I am following Pavel’s PTTP plan. I do like the one arm dumb-bell press, on a decline bench. I am getting up to heavy weight by doing the following – palms inward. When I exercise the right arm, I use the left arm to help get the weight into position. I push straight up with the right arm, and use the left to help stabilize the weight. By using both arms to get the weight into position, and using one hand to stabilize the weight, I can lift much heavier weight than I could if I picked up two dumb-bells at the same time. The decline is safer with a dumb-bell than a barbell, it hits the lats and triceps well. I started with the decline for situps, which I have dropped to focus on deadlift and dumb-bell press. For the decline press, it works the lats and the triceps well, and like the situp, the decllne position uses gravity to force your body into correct form.
January 15th, 2009
10:13 am
Hola Pavel, greetings from Colombia
I`m impressed with your system and your support answearing all the questions. i have started your recomendationsand I like it a lot. I have some Lordosis, nothing that requires an operation, but I just wanted to know if I shuld stick to deadlifts and squats or if theres any other recomendation. Many friends asked me about this system and ask if you plan to have a Spanish version of the book and DVDs soon. gracias y felicidades!
January 15th, 2009
10:23 pm
From Bob Smith:
“When during Faleev’s weekly cycle would be an appropriate time to integrate light kettlebell training?”
Bob, a light quick lift workout for conditioning and a couple of get-ups could be done twice a week after the heavy lifts, ideally a couple of hours later.
January 15th, 2009
10:25 pm
From Pat:
“I`m impressed with your system and your support answearing all the questions. i have started your recomendationsand I like it a lot. I have some Lordosis, nothing that requires an operation, but I just wanted to know if I shuld stick to deadlifts and squats or if theres any other recomendation. Many friends asked me about this system and ask if you plan to have a Spanish version of the book and DVDs soon. gracias y felicidades!”
Pat, thank you for your kind words! The decision is up to a doctor who is experienced in lifting. No plans for Spanish editions for the moment.
January 15th, 2009
10:27 pm
From Starting Off:
“I’m finding my grip slipping when doing deadlifts (so far I’ve been able to hang on). Do you have any suggestions for supplemental grip training to help with this?”
Use chalk. A good exercise for DL grip is loading up a bar set up in a power rack above your knees, picking it up with one arm, like a suitcase, and holding. After your regular DLs or on a different day.
January 16th, 2009
6:24 am
Pavel,
Thank you again for your response.
This quesiton relates to the stretching. I have Relax Into Stretch; are there any movement in it that you recommend to follow up each squat, bench and deadlift day?
Thanks.
Tom
January 16th, 2009
7:30 pm
From om Haddon:
“This quesiton relates to the stretching. I have Relax Into Stretch; are there any movement in it that you recommend to follow up each squat, bench and deadlift day?”
Haddon, you need stretches for the hams, quads, and hip flexors. You may stretch your back but not with forward flexion stretches like the toe touch.
January 16th, 2009
8:48 pm
Hi Pavel:
I recently completed the first week of this program and will follow it in pursuit of new maxes in the the big three in six months–on July 12th, 30 weeks from starting date. I have never planned a PR attempt this far out, or stuck strictly to a program for six months… So I would like your advice on how many weeks I should spend in each set/rep bracket 30 weeks out. Also, I modified the 4-day-week to “SQUAT-BENCH-OFF-DEADLIFT-OFF-LIGHT SQUAT/BENCH” because my past experience with 3 straight days of heavy lifting isn’t good.. Thanks for your support!
January 17th, 2009
6:31 pm
From Jason M.:
“I recently completed the first week of this program and will follow it in pursuit of new maxes in the the big three in six months–on July 12th, 30 weeks from starting date. I have never planned a PR attempt this far out, or stuck strictly to a program for six months… So I would like your advice on how many weeks I should spend in each set/rep bracket 30 weeks out.”
Jason, first stay with 5×5 for as long as you make gains in the BP (it will peter out first). Then add weight and do 3×3 the week after, 2×2 the week after that, and then max. After that run a more planned cycle. Power to you!
January 18th, 2009
10:21 am
is there a way to use KB c+p for a pttp program along with doing my barbell dl’s?
January 19th, 2009
8:54 am
From melkon:
“is there a way to use KB c+p for a pttp program along with doing my barbell dl’s?”
melkon, yes. Keep your DL volume low, 2×5, and do many, 10-20, sets of 5 with a single KB.
January 19th, 2009
9:46 am
thanks pavel-do you mean each day for five days a week like the ptp program?thanks again for your time
January 19th, 2009
12:12 pm
From melkon:
“do you mean each day for five days a week like the ptp program?”
melkon, 2-3 times a week, press 4-5.
January 21st, 2009
3:06 am
Hi Pavel,
Thanks for your article – I really enjoyed it. And your book – PTTP – also brilliant.
Can you tell me what the correct technique for bench press is? You mention using your lats – could you elaborate?
I know Faleev’s approach is a system based on the three exercises. But as a beginner who is looking for an 80/20 approach to strength/toning is the squat really necessary? Would the deadlift and bench press be sufficient?
Thanks vm
January 21st, 2009
3:06 am
Thanks again to Pavel and Tim!
I’ve been following the program (had to use the 4 day schedule a couple times to fit it in) for 3.5 weeks, and I have to say I’m impressed! Each week I’ve added 10 lbs to each lift, and some weeks the heavier weight seems lighter than the week before! I’m slightly overweight and have gained a solid 6 lbs, but it feels and looks like I’ve lost fat, so I’m very happy with my results so far. I’ve probably gained 10+lbs of muscle at least, and lost the difference in fat.
S.O.
January 21st, 2009
7:32 am
Pavel,
I’m entering a building phase to increase strength (and mass), endurance and flexibility. I plan to use Favlev’s program for myself during that period, and add endurance exercises at the end of each work out.
My girlfriend though, wants my help to loose some weight and I wonder if my plan would work well for her. Her goals are to loose X pounds and get a leaner, but not muscular, body.
Is there otherwise a plan that would work well for both of us?
Thank you for your time.
January 21st, 2009
9:48 am
Hey Pavel, this seems like a solid routine. But I am worried a little bit about muscular/strength imbalance. There is no rowing movement and it seem like the rear deltoids are ignored.
January 21st, 2009
11:51 am
Very cool to see an article here from Pavel!
Tim, I am excited to hear more about you and KBs. Whoo ha.
Special thanks to Pavel for taking time to answer everyones questions here.
rock on
Mike T Nelson, RKC, PhD(c)
January 22nd, 2009
9:38 am
From David:
“Can you tell me what the correct technique for bench press is? You mention using your lats – could you elaborate?I know Faleev’s approach is a system based on the three exercises. But as a beginner who is looking for an 80/20 approach to strength/toning is the squat really necessary? Would the deadlift and bench press be sufficient?”
David, I describe the proper BP technique in great detail in my book ‘Beyond Bodybuilding’, http://www.dragondoor.com/b31.html.
If the program calls for the squat, you need to squat. PTP is a DL based program; Faleev’s needs both. It is not a good idea to change proven training plans until you have the experience.
January 22nd, 2009
9:40 am
From Starting Off:
“I’ve been following the program (had to use the 4 day schedule a couple times to fit it in) for 3.5 weeks, and I have to say I’m impressed! Each week I’ve added 10 lbs to each lift, and some weeks the heavier weight seems lighter than the week before! I’m slightly overweight and have gained a solid 6 lbs, but it feels and looks like I’ve lost fat, so I’m very happy with my results so far. I’ve probably gained 10+lbs of muscle at least, and lost the difference in fat.”
Comrades, this is what happens when you follow the instructions and don’t fool around! Keep it up, Starting Off!
January 22nd, 2009
9:42 am
From Christoffer:
“My girlfriend though, wants my help to loose some weight and I wonder if my plan would work well for her. Her goals are to loose X pounds and get a leaner, but not muscular, body.Is there otherwise a plan that would work well for both of us?”
Christoffer, kettlebell training would be most appropriate for both of you. http://www.russiankettlebells.com has starter kits for men and women.
January 22nd, 2009
9:46 am
From John L:
“But I am worried a little bit about muscular/strength imbalance. There is no rowing movement and it seem like the rear deltoids are ignored.”
John, the bench press, when done properly, usess the rear deltoids very strongly (you ‘tear the bar apart’ with them). The DL gets them too. Adding exercises to this tested plan is one of the worst mistakes you could make. Humor me—test your rows today, then follow the Faleev plan for six months and retest your row. Your rowing strength will have increased significantly and the mass on the back of your shoulders with it.
Comrades, it bears repeating—do not try to ‘improve’ a professionally designed routine. You have nothing to gain and everything to loose.
January 22nd, 2009
9:47 am
From Mike T Nelson:
“Special thanks to Pavel for taking time to answer everyones questions here.”
Thank you, Com. Mike!
January 22nd, 2009
10:17 am
Thanks Pavel, and thanks again for your great and generous answers to all the questions here! I’ll be sure to stick with the program and report back on my progress to help encourage everyone here. Today was my first lift (DL) ever over my own body weight for the full 5×5 progression – 40 lbs heavier than my starting weight, and what a workout! 10 more lbs next week!
S.O.
January 22nd, 2009
10:51 am
Hi Pavel,
Do you have an opinion on the 5X5 program by Stronglifts.com vs Faleev’s 5X5 program? Thanks in advance.
BKH
January 22nd, 2009
11:41 am
From Brian:
“Do you have an opinion on the 5X5 program by Stronglifts.com vs Faleev’s 5X5 program?”
Brian, I am not familiar with the Stronglifts.com program.
January 22nd, 2009
1:06 pm
Hi Pavel,
The stronglifts program alternates between Workout A and Workout B below. Workouts are three days a week alternating between A and B. The site quotes your work so I assumed you knew of it. What do you think of this versus Faleev’s program Thanks again
Workout A Workout B
Squat 5×5 Squat 5×5
Bench Press 5×5 Overhead Press 5×5
Inverted Rows 3xF Deadlift 1×5
Push-ups 3xF Pull-ups/Chin-ups 3xF
Reverse Crunch 3×12 Prone Bridges 3×30sec
January 23rd, 2009
1:11 pm
I am using this program and have been since the first of the year, a little less than one month. I am competing in a bench press contest around August or September, and my one rep max has increased 20 lbs. since starting. Hopefully, I am off to a good start and will be hitting a approximately 200 lb. bench by that time. I am taking NO2, creatine, and weight gain protein powder too as I want to gain a few pounds to be in the 132 lb. class. I have always liked a more minimalistic philosophy and would welcome any and all emails at doctordanny337@yahoo.com, especially from Mr. Ferris, Tsatsouline, or any others that have suggestions.
January 23rd, 2009
3:50 pm
Hi Pavel,
How about 3×3 on the heavy days and 3×2 light days?
Thanks,
Derrick
January 23rd, 2009
9:58 pm
From Brian:
“The stronglifts program alternates between Workout A and Workout B below. Workouts are three days a week alternating between A and B. The site quotes your work so I assumed you knew of it. What do you think of this versus Faleev’s program Thanks again
Workout A Workout B
Squat 5×5 Squat 5×5
Bench Press 5×5 Overhead Press 5×5
Inverted Rows 3xF Deadlift 1×5
Push-ups 3xF Pull-ups/Chin-ups 3xF
Reverse Crunch 3×12 Prone Bridges 3×30sec”
Brian, looks like a good schedule. Make sure there is some form of cycling.
January 23rd, 2009
10:00 pm
From Derrick:
“How about 3×3 on the heavy days and 3×2 light days?”
Derrick, you will get either a peaking program for the last few weks before a meet or one for building or maintaining strength without building muscle. Very few people grow on three triples. Fives can’t be beat.
January 25th, 2009
10:11 pm
Pavel,
You have inspired me to better myself, and your advice has come through 100%! Which book of yours would be the best for direction on stretching after these three big lifts? (I will definitely buy what you suggest – I want to support you after all the free and valuable help I’ve gotten) I tried using a standard stretch for the butt, but the indian style type stretch made my knee hurt pretty bad;any suggestions?
Thanks :)
Starting Off
January 26th, 2009
11:43 am
From Starting Off:
“You have inspired me to better myself, and your advice has come through 100%! Which book of yours would be the best for direction on stretching after these three big lifts? (I will definitely buy what you suggest – I want to support you after all the free and valuable help I’ve gotten) I tried using a standard stretch for the butt, but the indian style type stretch made my knee hurt pretty bad;any suggestions?”
Starting Off, thank you for your kind words! My ‘Strength Stretching’ DVD has been endorsed by many powerlifting champions and coaches:
http://www.dragondoor.com/dv024.html
January 27th, 2009
3:38 am
Hey Mr. Pavel,
I enjoyed reading this. I asked Tim about what to do to bulk up since I’m a runner/decathlete/triathlete. What would be the effects of a lot of cardio to this type of workout? Leaning up or counterintuitive and pointless to do cardio?
I’ll be getting back into running about 40-50miles a week with lifting.
Any thoughts?
Thanks so much in advance!!!
Chris
January 27th, 2009
9:15 am
[...] down Crossfit as well. I’ll still use their warm-up (with added weights) but I have to use a simpler fitness program. I like Crossfit’s methodology better, but the three-days-on, one-day-off, are [...]
January 27th, 2009
11:42 am
From christopher ming lee:
“I like Crossfit’s methodology better.”
christopher ming lee, you are comparing apples and oranges. The two methodologies have totally different goals.
January 27th, 2009
1:40 pm
From Chris Wyatt:
“What would be the effects of a lot of cardio to this type of workout? Leaning up or counterintuitive and pointless to do cardio? I’ll be getting back into running about 40-50miles a week with lifting.”
Chris, you would be getting minimal results in running and lifting. If you are a runner you need a different strength regimen. And don’t plan on getting bigger, unless you switch to sprinting.
January 29th, 2009
2:33 am
As a testament to Pavel’s earlier comment on squats working the abs: I hadn’t noticed any work on my abs until this week. On my 5th week heavy squat (going up 10 lbs each week) I hit the point at which I got a really good ab workout just from doing the squats – I had to use my abs to stabilize the weight and it was a heck of a workout.
S.O.
January 30th, 2009
9:28 am
From Starting Off:
“As a testament to Pavel’s earlier comment on squats working the abs: I hadn’t noticed any work on my abs until this week. On my 5th week heavy squat (going up 10 lbs each week) I hit the point at which I got a really good ab workout just from doing the squats – I had to use my abs to stabilize the weight and it was a heck of a workout.”
Starting Off, a good call to stick to the plan! Comrades, pay attention!
February 3rd, 2009
8:23 am
Pavel,
I was surprised to see the 5×5 routine here instead of the pure strength PTP workout. Anyway, if I follow this routine, am I allowed to do cardio? If so, how much and how often?
Great post btw.
Thanks!
February 4th, 2009
3:07 am
Hi everyone,
Before all, thanks to Pavel and Tim for this article, really interessing, i’m currently putting it in practice, 5 days a week, as recommanded. I’ll let you know my progress (Don’t know yet if I should report every two weeks, or less)
Some information from where I start :
I haven’t done any serious training for 19 months, so I guess we could say I’m starting from nothing, I’m 19, 1.64 cm, 60.2 kg, 7.5 kg of body fat ( 12.5/100)
Currently, my workload are:
56 kg on squat
20 kg on deadlift
25kg on bench press
don’t laugh thanks^^
I have a question for Pavel: About abs, can we do the same kind of exercice for abs? for exemple taking some weight and doing 5*5 series of basics abs exercice?
Or is it dangerous for the back?
Thank you in advance for your answer
February 4th, 2009
9:08 am
From Manche:
“Pavel,
I was surprised to see the 5×5 routine here instead of the pure strength PTP workout. Anyway, if I follow this routine, am I allowed to do cardio? If so, how much and how often?
Great post btw.
Thanks!”
Manche,
In the comments above, Pavel suggests doing the ‘program minimum’ from his book and video, both titled, “Enter The Kettlebell,” as a compliment to this lifting schedule. A workout based on this program lasts 15 minutes twice a week and 22 minutes twice a week for four total workouts per week. I highly recommend the book and video as well as the combination of the two systems he reccomends.
S.O.
February 4th, 2009
9:33 am
From Manche:
“I was surprised to see the 5×5 routine here instead of the pure strength PTP workout. Anyway, if I follow this routine, am I allowed to do cardio? If so, how much and how often?”
Manche, the idea is not just to build strength but mass as well.
Cardio is fine, just take it easy. Marty Gallagher’s hiking recommendations are most appropriate in my opinion. If you go hard on cardio you will compromise your muscle gains.
February 4th, 2009
6:05 pm
From Thomas:
“About abs, can we do the same kind of exercice for abs? for exemple taking some weight and doing 5*5 series of basics abs exercice?”
Thomas, generally, yes (I recommend low rep ab training in my book ‘Bullet-Proof Abs’), but not on Faleev’s plan. Stick to it as written.
You definitely need to up the poundages. It is good to be conservative but one can go too far.
February 5th, 2009
9:26 am
Pavel,
I’ve been progressing well for the last 6 weeks, adding 10 lbs each week to each of the lifts. I’ve had noticable fat loss and muscle gain, which is exciting! My squat is 50lbs lower than my dead (squat:185lbs dead:235lbs), and I was wondering if that was a problem, since I always see people with squats and deads so close to each other. Is there any reason to try and keep the two similar or to be concerned about the imbalance?
Thanks!
S.O.
February 5th, 2009
9:47 am
From Starting Off:
“I’ve been progressing well for the last 6 weeks, adding 10 lbs each week to each of the lifts. I’ve had noticable fat loss and muscle gain, which is exciting! My squat is 50lbs lower than my dead (squat:185lbs dead:235lbs), and I was wondering if that was a problem, since I always see people with squats and deads so close to each other. Is there any reason to try and keep the two similar or to be concerned about the imbalance?”
Starting Off, it is normal. In powerlifting special suits (imagine wearing several pairs of jeans that are three sizes too small for you on top of each other) add a lot of pounds to the SQ but not to the DL. Raw lifters (those who do not wear assisting gear) usually pull more than they SQ.
Good work, keep it up!
February 6th, 2009
7:41 am
Pavel, ok little update about how much I take, and a question.
When i’m referring to the weight I don’t take into account the weight of the bar, just the weight that I add… but from the last two days I take your advise into account even if it was theoricaly “resting days”.
So if we add the weight of the bar here is my new record:
Press: 48 kg (105 pounds)
Deadlift: 38 kg ( 83.6 pounds)
Squat:67.5 kg (148.5 pounds)
The difference between DL and SQ come I guess from the fact that for SQ I use “guidance” machine, not free weight…
About this I have a big question: for the press I tried to see how much could I reach with free weight and with guidance machine… the difference is, heavy, with the free weight I my limit is 48, but with the guidance I can go up to 58, probably more (I tried it at the end of the session…)
So what would you recommand? use the free weight or the guidance machine? I understand that with the free weight we use muscle to stabilize the bar, but I wonder if its worthy… (or if its better to that the guidance with higher weight…)
Thank you in advance for your answer…
February 6th, 2009
8:17 am
Thomas,
Bars in my gym typically weigh 45lbs (20kg), so if you’re not adding the weight of the bar that would account for the difference. I would suggest using free weights to gain more useful strength, but use the machine if you don’t have a spotter and aren’t comfortable with the weight. The machines typically have negligible weight and are balanced, so you don’t add for the bar, but you should always factor the bar in to your total for free weights.
S.O.
February 6th, 2009
9:27 am
Thomas, use free weights. You will need a spotter or a power rack.
February 6th, 2009
4:47 pm
My question to Tim or Pavel,
I have difficulty squatting-due to past injuries my back curls which is unsafe. What excersise shold I do instead of squats? OHP etc?
I look forward to your reply.
February 7th, 2009
4:46 am
Dear Pavel/Tim,
This article is so good, last summer I participated in strength training but since then done conditioning training.I want to give this a go for the reason that it provided maximum progress, and focuses on the key strength training exercises.
Q. I am unable to squat (with proper technique i.e. curling back). What exercise should I do, or how could I change the program? As I know dead lifts provide some leg muscle development. But squat is the best(which annoys me).
Q. I would opt for the three days as it will provide more time for me to focus on other aspects of my life, how would you incorporate the above exercise into my workout. Mon, Wed, Fri?
Thank you and I look forward to your reply.
February 7th, 2009
9:44 am
From Dominic Ayres:
“I have difficulty squatting-due to past injuries my back curls which is unsafe. What excersise shold I do instead of squats? OHP etc?”
Dominic, almost anyone can learn to squat safely. My ‘Strength Stretching’ DVD will help you: http://www.dragondoor.com/dv024.html. Or you could hire a powerlifter or an expert trainer for a few lessons. Let me know where you are based and I might be able to recommend one.
February 7th, 2009
9:45 am
From Dominic Ayres:
“Q. I would opt for the three days as it will provide more time for me to focus on other aspects of my life, how would you incorporate the above exercise into my workout Mon, Wed, Fri?”
Dominic:
Monday – heavy SQ
Tuesday –off
Wednesday –heavy BP, light SQ
Thursday – off
Friday – heavy DL, light BP
Saturday – off
Sunday – off
February 8th, 2009
12:45 pm
[...] I get stronger and don’t injure myself. I’m trying a different, even more stripped down routine, written by Pavel Tsatsouline. I’m supplementing this routine with martial arts [...]
February 8th, 2009
4:56 pm
Pavel:
I know “HOW” to squat. I used to do Stronglifts 5×5, and my brother and friend taught me how to squat with correct technique and I used a lot of strentching such as Squat stretch etc. Mobility DVD.
But I was born with Bilateral Talipes Equinovarus-in which the heel is drawn up and the sole turned inwards which means my heels cannot touch the floor when I squat down.
Q: Can I get away with Deadlifting and OHP and BP as a workout.
But thank you for your replies. Going to start this workout tomorrow so excited as have not done strength training in months.
February 8th, 2009
5:24 pm
Sorry to keep asking questions about this post but I really want to ensure that I am effective tomorrow:
Question: If I am only in the gym for an hour max as you only do two exercises at most what stretches are best for the following lifts?
Deadlift?
Bench?
OHP?
Squat?
What specific stretches prepare you best for these lifts Pavel?
February 8th, 2009
7:26 pm
From dominic:
“I know “HOW” to squat. I used to do Stronglifts 5×5, and my brother and friend taught me how to squat with correct technique and I used a lot of strentching such as Squat stretch etc. Mobility DVD. But I was born with Bilateral Talipes Equinovarus-in which the heel is drawn up and the sole turned inwards which means my heels cannot touch the floor when I squat down.Q: Can I get away with Deadlifting and OHP and BP as a workout.”
dominic, could you squat with your shins vertical, as they do at Westside?
February 8th, 2009
7:27 pm
From dominic:
“What specific stretches prepare you best for these lifts Pavel?”
dominic, please see my ‘Strength Stretching’ DVD.
Go ahead and start the program without squats until we work out what to do about your SQs.
February 9th, 2009
1:02 am
Pavel,
You recommended your ‘Strength Stretching’ DVD to me as well, and I have to say I’m impressed. My squat seemed much easier with only minor changes (I had already researched form and had it close, but perfected it with your video). My other two lifts improved as well – It’s definitely a must-see for anyone planning on following this plan!
S.O.
February 9th, 2009
9:11 am
From Starting Off:
“Pavel, You recommended your ‘Strength Stretching’ DVD to me as well, and I have to say I’m impressed. My squat seemed much easier with only minor changes (I had already researched form and had it close, but perfected it with your video). My other two lifts improved as well – It’s definitely a must-see for anyone planning on following this plan!”
Thank you for your kind words, Starting Off!
February 9th, 2009
5:19 pm
Hi Tim,
I just finished the book and I LOVE it.
I am a going to be 37 years old next month. I am a jack-of-all-trades in regard to marketing, business development and PR. I am on my my last and final horrible owner…I can’t take.
Can anyone share with me more about finding a muse. I have been seriously brainstorming for about a month now and I just don’t know where to start to break away from working for other people.
I am ready to go but I can’t seem to find my direction…help!
K
February 9th, 2009
11:48 pm
Pavel,
I’m progressing well, and I have decided to work towards a personal goal (benching my own weight, will attain in 5-8 weeks hopefully), then I want to maintain the strength gains while focusing on losing fat w/ cardio/kettlebells (I need to lose around 20 lbs, even considering the muscle gains – I’m 5′11″, 213lbs and only lifting 5×5 b:155 sq:195 dl:245 = chubby…). Any suggestions on how to mix the two for fat loss while maintaining strength in the pl’s? I understand a good diet is key, too, I’m pretty strict now on veggies, fresh fruits and lean protiens.
Thanks!
S.O.
February 10th, 2009
9:00 am
From Starting Off:
“I’m progressing well, and I have decided to work towards a personal goal (benching my own weight, will attain in 5-8 weeks hopefully), then I want to maintain the strength gains while focusing on losing fat w/ cardio/kettlebells (I need to lose around 20 lbs, even considering the muscle gains – I’m 5?11?, 213lbs and only lifting 5×5 b:155 sq:195 dl:245 = chubby…). Any suggestions on how to mix the two for fat loss while maintaining strength in the pl’s? I understand a good diet is key, too, I’m pretty strict now on veggies, fresh fruits and lean protiens.”
Starting Off, don’t change your training until you reach at least 1.5 times bodyweight BP, 2bw SQ and 2.5bw DL (for you that means 300, 400, and 500). You may add some KB swings for fat loss soon. Indeed, nutrition is important, find a reputable expert to listen to.
February 10th, 2009
9:23 am
Pavel,
Thanks again for you advice! I’ll stick to the plan as is and get the lifts higher before changing anything. It’s definitely enjoyable enough, and the gains I’ve seen already are encouraging enough to take it farther :).
S.O.
February 11th, 2009
6:08 pm
I have no clue what’s happening, but I followed the routine for the first time last week and managed 5×5. I don’t know if it was all in ‘perfect form’. However, this week, when I added 10 pounds, I couldn’t squat correctly or bench even two reps. Did I get weaker? Also, when do you advise people should not attempt a rep? I might have gone to failure last time. I could’ve knocked another few reps after the workout was done though. Does that count?
February 12th, 2009
4:12 pm
Pavel,
Big fan here. I have a few of your books and am always looking to improve my lifts. I have been lifting for about 8 years but until recently have never been in a good enough financial position to hire a trainer. Do you know of a good one in the Baltimore area that you could recommend? Thanks again -
Pat
February 13th, 2009
9:09 am
From Kale:
“I have no clue what’s happening, but I followed the routine for the first time last week and managed 5×5. I don’t know if it was all in ‘perfect form’. However, this week, when I added 10 pounds, I couldn’t squat correctly or bench even two reps. Did I get weaker? Also, when do you advise people should not attempt a rep? I might have gone to failure last time. I could’ve knocked another few reps after the workout was done though. Does that count?”
Kale, you picked too big of a weight. Back way off and start over. At the end of each set you should be able to do one more rep if you tried your hardest.
February 13th, 2009
9:12 am
From Pat in Baltimore:
“Big fan here. I have a few of your books and am always looking to improve my lifts. I have been lifting for about 8 years but until recently have never been in a good enough financial position to hire a trainer. Do you know of a good one in the Baltimore area that you could recommend? Thanks again”
Pat, here is your trainer. Skilled with powerlifting and kettlebells:
Dan Cenidoza
Baltimore, MD
Phone: 443-562-7964
Email: bemoretraining@gmail.com
External Web Site: http://www.bemoretraining.com
February 14th, 2009
2:17 am
hello pavel and everybody,
first thank for answering all our question.
Second here are a set of new question
1)for the press: A big friend of mine, advice me to lift up my foot from the ground when I’m benching, (because it seems that I have one arm stronger than the other and I relied on the grounds to balance this inequality..) so what do you think about it?
2) For the DL, everybody seems use to most weight on it (compare to SQ or BP), but for me its the opposite I tried to perform it as in the video of Johnnie Jackson, but while doing so the coach told me to start much lower than him and to rely more on the leg, in order to protect my back…, so is it bullshit? should I perform it like here:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BBDeadlift.html
thanks
Thomas
February 16th, 2009
1:55 pm
Everyone,
I just want to say how thankful we should all be to Pavel for him taking the time to answer everyone’s questions!
Seriously, I’ve listened to Pavel’s advice for YEARS and gotten incredible results without ever talking to him personally like this.
This is a huge opportunity for those of you who listen to him and act on his advice. And for people asking him if they can mess with the program — just follow it like he says — all us top guys trust Pavel’s advice!
Later
Caleb
February 16th, 2009
3:15 pm
Comrade Caleb, thank you for your kind words!
February 16th, 2009
5:37 pm
From Thomas:
“1)for the press: A big friend of mine, advice me to lift up my foot from the ground when I’m benching, (because it seems that I have one arm stronger than the other and I relied on the grounds to balance this inequality..) so what do you think about it?”
Thomas, don’t lift your feet, they need to drive hard into the platform. Add a set or two of 5 of one-arm DB bench presses after your barbell benches.
“2) For the DL, everybody seems use to most weight on it (compare to SQ or BP), but for me its the opposite I tried to perform it as in the video of Johnnie Jackson, but while doing so the coach told me to start much lower than him and to rely more on the leg, in order to protect my back…, so is it bullshit? should I perform it like here:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BBDeadlift.html”
Gray Cook explains why you should not squat your DLs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P02K_-OxwMs
There are many ways to DL, good and bad. Hiring a powerlifter for a couple of sessions would help. Let me know where you live and I might be able to find you one.
February 17th, 2009
3:13 am
thanks again pavel,
Thomas, don’t lift your feet, they need to drive hard into the platform. Add a set or two of 5 of one-arm DB bench presses after your barbell benches.
you mean a DB bench only on my weaker arm right?
Gray cook’s video is pretty interesting, I will do my DL tommorow, and see the result.
and I’m living in HongKong at the moment
February 17th, 2009
7:33 am
Hmmmm this was 1 of my New Year’s Resolutions that I’ve yet to Tackle* Then again I bought Baron Baptiste’s YOGA book not last Summer but the one before + I haven’t read it yet nor attempted a Downward Dog* I guess if I’m gonna Climb back into the UFC Steel Octagon with Chuck “The Iceman” Liddell I better get Started with 5X5!! ;))
February 17th, 2009
7:57 am
Tim,
I teach my readers the benefits of using strength as a way to gain definition…both men as well as women. I use Pavel’s methods to help people get the hip “Hollywood Look”…I’ve been following Pavel for the past 10 years and have a lot of respect for this innovator.
Awesome post buddy!
Rusty
February 17th, 2009
9:27 am
From Thomas:
“you mean a DB bench only on my weaker arm right?”
Yes, Thomas.
February 17th, 2009
9:28 am
Thank you for your kind words, Rusty!
February 17th, 2009
1:37 pm
Pavel – Your Beyond Bodybuilding book changed the way I looked at weights forever. Thank you for the great article…
February 17th, 2009
4:23 pm
From David Ridarelli:
“Pavel – Your Beyond Bodybuilding book changed the way I looked at weights forever. Thank you for the great article…”
Thank you, David!
February 19th, 2009
4:25 am
thank you pavel, with the good way of making DL, I went from 38 to 60 kg, amazing how just changing the way you lift up change the amount of weigth you take
Good DL feels good, but I’m wondering, why only one DL per week?
thanks again
February 19th, 2009
5:34 am
Going on 8 weeks and doing great! So far I’ve increased all of my lifts by 80 lbs by increasing 10 lbs each week (when 5×5 was acheived)! Following the plan to the letter is definitely a must! I’ve been following the five day schedule, by the way, with a couple weeks modified to the four day schedule due to time constraints.
Thanks again!
S.O.
February 19th, 2009
8:51 am
From Thomas:
“thank you pavel, with the good way of making DL, I went from 38 to 60 kg, amazing how just changing the way you lift up change the amount of weigth you take. Good DL feels good, but I’m wondering, why only one DL per week?”
Thomas, aim to build up to 2-2.5 times your bodyweight eventually (more if you decide to powerlift).
The deadlift takes a lot out of you and many coaches believe once a week hits the spot.
February 19th, 2009
8:53 am
From Starting Off:
“Going on 8 weeks and doing great! So far I’ve increased all of my lifts by 80 lbs by increasing 10 lbs each week (when 5×5 was acheived)! Following the plan to the letter is definitely a must! I’ve been following the five day schedule, by the way, with a couple weeks modified to the four day schedule due to time constraints.”
Great work, Starting Off! A lesson to all, comrades. If instead of constantly changing your mind and your routines you found one tested simple program you would be getting somwhere.
February 19th, 2009
1:11 pm
Pavel,
I found this article recently and was impressed by what you wrote. I investigated more about you(don’t worry, I wasn’t stalking you) and it lead me to order Beyond Bodybuilding and PTP. I LOVED them. I feel it’s an honor to have you personally answer our questions. Thanks.
Before I ask my questions I would like to give you some info about myself to help you acurately answer my question.
I compete in submission wrestling and I am a newbie RAW powerlifter(my first meet is in june). I weigh 208 lbs, 5′10 tall and 10% bodyfat. I can Bench 305 lbs, squat 365 lbs and deadlift 455.
My question is, how can I pack on weight to be a bigger heavyweight(I am a small one now) while improving my “BIG 3″ lifts without over training with grappling? I figured I would use PTP and cycle it with th BEAR for bulking, however I am confused as how to include the squat in the PTP training. Also, if I could include the squat in my PTP training and cycle it with kettlebells, would it work? Can you build mass with kettlebells?
Thanks in advance for taking time to anwer my question.
February 19th, 2009
2:32 pm
P.S.
I also wanted to know what the best way to do more pull ups? I can do 20 strict ones. I want to do 30. Should I do latters every other day or do 5 pullups when ever I pass my pullup bar in the house?
Also the numbers on my 3 powerlifts might look weak for my size, but I am new to the big 3 and these numbers were based off of strict powerlifting form. I am strong, I just need to translate it to the big 3. I think my bench and DL are my strengths, so I was wandering if a push pull meet would suit me best and then I could just stick to DL and bench using your origional PTP program?
Are these too many goals to have at once? I just want to be a well rounded athlete and compete in the two sports I most enjoy, submission wrestling and powerlifting.
Sorry for so many questions, but you are the authority on strength in my book and I know you will be able to at least give me some insight on how I can begin my journy in the strength world.
February 19th, 2009
6:50 pm
Pavel, what is the best method of stretching? that has been the only thing I’m not too sure if I’m doing properly
Also, any recommendation for squatting unassisted, it can be quite daunting to up your poundage and not be sure if you’ll make it (I’m not wanting to train Zercher squat)
February 22nd, 2009
9:28 pm
Tim. Whats you opinon on crossfit?
February 23rd, 2009
11:51 am
@Kevin,
I have mixed opinions of Crossfit. I was exposed to CF first when training in BJJ and went through perhaps a dozen sessions in different facilities over several years. I think there is value in sustaining strength at higher heart rates, but I think the mixing and matching done so often in CF can be dangerous — i.e. going from ergometer to muscle ups to heavy back squats. Reps are also performed much too fast, and racing other trainees to do the most reps in a given time period breeds bad form.
It can get you in fantastic shape… if it doesn’t injure you. I know dozens of well-trained athletes who have abandoned CF after multiple injuries.
I’d rather just choose a methodology that is highly unlikely to injure me. If you’re getting twice the results from CF than anything else but get a significant injury (shoulder in particular) every 6 months, it is a training program that will do more harm than good, IMHO. I don’t see any problem with separating strength training from endurance training and then getting sport-specific conditioning by practicing your sport.
Hope that helps,
Tim
February 23rd, 2009
10:18 am
viking slav, thank you for your kind words!
Submission wrestling and PL are incompatible. You may practice some DLs and BPs but for lower than 5×5 volume. Otherwise you will gain weight and get stiff.
“Grease the groove” to improve your pullups. The method is in my book ‘The Naked Warrior’ (http://www.dragondoor.com/b28.html). You may also find articles about it on the web.
February 23rd, 2009
10:20 am
From Alexander:
“Pavel, what is the best method of stretching? that has been the only thing I’m not too sure if I’m doing properly
Also, any recommendation for squatting unassisted, it can be quite daunting to up your poundage and not be sure if you’ll make it (I’m not wanting to train Zercher squat)”
Alexander, why do you stretch? Your goals affect the choice of the method.
Squat in a power rack with the pins ready to catch you.
February 23rd, 2009
11:48 am
Pavel,
If I would like to do your bear program from PTP, will that make me stronger or just bigger? I want both strength and size. Is the 5×5 more suitable for these goals?
I also want to do your ETK programs for cardio. Is it ok to do kettlebell for size, or is it just something I can cycle with my strength/bulking programs to keep heart-healthy?
The reason I ask about size with kettlebells is because I saw a pro powerlifter talk about training with you and kettlebells online, and he said it added mass to his shoulders and traps. That’s cool because kettlebells are so fun! They give you explosiveness, endurance, strength, and flexiblity. Most people say kettlebells are only for getting skinny.
February 23rd, 2009
10:21 pm
From big dave
“If I would like to do your bear program from PTP, will that make me stronger or just bigger? I want both strength and size. Is the 5×5 more suitable for these goals?”
Dave, start with 5×5, later move up to the Bear.
“I also want to do your ETK programs for cardio. Is it ok to do kettlebell for size, or is it just something I can cycle with my strength/bulking programs to keep heart-healthy?”
Kettlebells are very effective for adding size but you need to pick the appropriate training method. We are about to release my new book ‘Return of the Kettlebell’ which is about strength and muscle building with KBs.
“The reason I ask about size with kettlebells is because I saw a pro powerlifter talk about training with you and kettlebells online, and he said it added mass to his shoulders and traps. That’s cool because kettlebells are so fun! They give you explosiveness, endurance, strength, and flexiblity.”
Correct, if you know how to train. Donnie Thompson, RKC, who holds the highest powerlifting total (the sum of the squat, bench, and dealdift) has added 26 pounds of muscle and 100 pounds to his bench with KB. Marc Bartley, RKC, the total world record holder in the 275 pound class, has added 44 pounds to his bench with KBs.
“Most people say kettlebells are only for getting skinny.”
They work for that too. There are many ways to use kettlebells.
February 24th, 2009
8:31 am
Pavel,
That is excellent news about the new book “Return of the Kettlebell”!!!
I can’t wait to get it. When does it come out? If it will not be out for a while, can I order information on how to train like this from you so I can get started now and buy some kettlebells? Just let me know how.
February 24th, 2009
8:38 am
Pavel,
Can I do this program for two weeks then do kettlebells for two weeks and alternate like that as long as there is cycling done in both? I like the barbell and the kettlebells.
February 24th, 2009
8:46 am
Pavel,
I am familiar with many 5×5 programs and I have been on one much like this for a while(I enjoy soviet programs). I noticed you told Big Dave to do 5×5 then move to the BEAR. Why, is the bear more advanced? I have your PTP book and I have never tried the BEAR, but I would like to. Since I have done 5×5, what can I expect from the BEAR?
February 24th, 2009
9:24 am
From big dave:
“That is excellent news about the new book “Return of the Kettlebell”!!!
I can’t wait to get it. When does it come out? If it will not be out for a while, can I order information on how to train like this from you so I can get started now and buy some kettlebells? Just let me know how.”
Dave, “Return of the Kettlebell” will be out in March or April. It is not for beginners but for those who have completed the Rite of Passage from “Enter the Kettlebell!”
February 25th, 2009
8:13 am
From Mark:
“Can I do this program for two weeks then do kettlebells for two weeks and alternate like that as long as there is cycling done in both? I like the barbell and the kettlebells.”
Mark, eventually—perhaps. The cycling will have to be different. For now stick with one or the other.
February 25th, 2009
8:14 am
From Spencer:
“I am familiar with many 5×5 programs and I have been on one much like this for a while(I enjoy soviet programs). I noticed you told Big Dave to do 5×5 then move to the BEAR. Why, is the bear more advanced? I have your PTP book and I have never tried the BEAR, but I would like to. Since I have done 5×5, what can I expect from the BEAR?”
Spencer, the Bear has more volume and 5×5 is a logical stepping stone.
February 25th, 2009
7:53 pm
Pavel,
In your book Power to the People you state that when on the BEAR program that “because of increased work load you may have to reduce training frequency… but not too much.” How many days do I train durring the BEAR? Do I do the press and DL same day or not? It does not specify that in your book.
I can’t wait to buy your new book Return of the Kettlebell! When I was training with your ETK program I was able to loose 20 lbs of fat and gain 10 lbs of muscle, thanks!
By the way this 80/20 powerlifting was a great article! But I wouldn’t expect any less from you, congratulations!
February 25th, 2009
8:47 pm
Pavel,
On this program would I be able to lose fat while building muscle mass, or would a 3X5 program with additional kettlebells be a more appropriate way to do that?
February 26th, 2009
9:08 am
From Scott:
“In your book Power to the People you state that when on the BEAR program that “because of increased work load you may have to reduce training frequency… but not too much.” How many days do I train durring the BEAR? Do I do the press and DL same day or not? It does not specify that in your book.”
Scott, try benching twice a week and deadlifting once.
“I can’t wait to buy your new book Return of the Kettlebell! When I was training with your ETK program I was able to loose 20 lbs of fat and gain 10 lbs of muscle, thanks!”
Thank you for your kind words! Please review the book on http://www.dragondoor.com/b33.html.
“By the way this 80/20 powerlifting was a great article! But I wouldn’t expect any less from you, congratulations!”
Thank you!
February 26th, 2009
9:10 am
From Samuel:
“On this program would I be able to lose fat while building muscle mass, or would a 3X5 program with additional kettlebells be a more appropriate way to do that?”
Samuel, you might lose some fat but it is not the focus on the program. Try this: stay on the 5×5 plan for 12 weeks, then focus on fat loss for 12 weeks, then go back to 5×5.
February 26th, 2009
10:44 am
Pavel,
In your book Power to the People you state that when on the bear program that “because of increased work load you may have to reduce training frequency… but not too much.” How many days do I train durring the bear? Do I do the press and DL same day or not? It does not specify that in your book.
February 26th, 2009
4:14 pm
Scott, try benching twice a week and deadlifting once. On separate days.
February 26th, 2009
7:50 pm
Hi Tim and Pavel,
I took a look at this article when it was first posted. I had been on a gym ‘hiatus’ for far too long due to a knee injury and then just plain slackness. I’ve always been quick to gain and lose weight going from 155 to195 lbs. and back to 155 in just over a year (running, weightlifting, traveling)
I had only gotten back into a typical routine a couple of months before I read this article and decided to try it out. Now, obviously, quick gains are to be had in the short term for anyone sticking to a routine (in my experience) but I have seen the best gains in strength and physique that I have ever seen while using this plan.
I will be posting on my own site about my experience after my 6 month mark is reached. I initially planned on trying to get my 1 RM to 225 lbs. from 115 lbs. in a year but since I am already gaining so quickly on this – I expect I’ll reach that within 6 months. My Dead Lift, which I had never really given the time of day, has gone from 185 lbs to 250 lbs. and my squat from 165 lbs. to 250 lbs. This is all in 7 weeks. Now, I don’t know if these are great gains or not, I’m not employing a trainer and I’m not taking any supplements excepting a protein shake after my workout. I generally try to stick to Tim’s lifestyle diet, and have done for the most part for the past year.
For the duration of this exercise regimen I have stayed around 190 lbs. and have only seen great gains in strength and looks; and am just stoked to get to it everyday.
Thanks to both of you for the article and the great insights into strength training, lifestyle and for pushing yourself to be better everyday.
February 27th, 2009
8:40 am
Good work, Matt! Stick with the plan, don’t experiment.
February 27th, 2009
9:02 am
Pavel,
Since your ptp program is lower daily volume, can i do it in the morning and then do kettlebells in the afternoon?
I no longer practice another sport so I don’t think I will be over-training. do you?
I use to box and got great results with ptp, I know I couldn’t do ptp and kettlebells when boxing, but now can i do dettlebells and ptp together , seperate times of the day?
Thanks for answering our questions. By the way, I am American-born RUSSIAN! Power to you!
February 28th, 2009
9:06 am
From Dmitri Mendeleev:
“Since your ‘Power to to the People!’ program is lower daily volume, can i do it in the morning and then do kettlebells in the afternoon? I no longer practice another sport so I don’t think I will be over-training. do you? I use to box and got great results with ptp, I know I couldn’t do ptp and kettlebells when boxing, but now can i do dettlebells and ptp together , seperate times of the day?”
Dmitri, simply add two sets of DLs to your KB practice twice a week and do another 2-3 days of KBs only. Power to you!
March 1st, 2009
5:52 pm
Pavel,
Thanks for the info on how to do the bear program. Will the bear make me stronger as well as bigger, or is it primarily a hypertrophy program?
March 2nd, 2009
8:55 am
From scott:
“Thanks for the info on how to do the bear program. Will the bear make me stronger as well as bigger, or is it primarily a hypertrophy program?”
Scott, both. It is a logical progression after 5×5.
March 2nd, 2009
12:53 pm
I have been making great progress with this program, though I got sick and that slowed things down.
I am going to do as Faleev suggests and compete soon. The x 1.2 way to get the one rep max is accurate for me, though I use 1.25.
But I am wondering how to figure out what weight to use when moving from 5×5 to 4×4 to 3×3 and also exactly how long I might best do each. Can somebody help with a formula, suggestion, either, or both? I am a novice and would appreciate the kindness.
March 2nd, 2009
10:37 pm
From Dr. Danny:
“I have been making great progress with this program, though I got sick and that slowed things down.
I am going to do as Faleev suggests and compete soon. The x 1.2 way to get the one rep max is accurate for me, though I use 1.25.
But I am wondering how to figure out what weight to use when moving from 5×5 to 4×4 to 3×3 and also exactly how long I might best do each. Can somebody help with a formula, suggestion, either, or both? I am a novice and would appreciate the kindness.”
Dr. Danny, let me know your 5×5 PR and your 1RM and the date of the meet and I will map it out for you.
March 4th, 2009
8:57 am
Hi pavel?
any friends in hongkong to show me the proper way to squat/bench/DL.
(of course I look at some video, and ask bodybuilder here, but it would be better to be corrected in live)
anyway
here are my result:
squat. 72.5kg
deadlift 75 kg
press (switched to the guided one in order to build muscle before coming back to the free weight, and because people here don’t understand what a spotter is…) 62.5kg
I saw that you (pavel) made a dvd about streching for those different exercice, is it possible to buy it and to download it on a website (don’t really want to pay double price to send it to HK^^)?
thank you
March 4th, 2009
11:52 pm
From Thomas
“any friends in hongkong to show me the proper way to squat/bench/DL.
(of course I look at some video, and ask bodybuilder here, but it would be better to be corrected in live)
here are my result:
squat. 72.5kg
deadlift 75 kg
press (switched to the guided one in order to build muscle before coming back to the free weight, and because people here don’t understand what a spotter is…) 62.5kg
I saw that you (pavel) made a dvd about streching for those different exercice, is it possible to buy it and to download it on a website (don’t really want to pay double price to send it to HK^^)?”
Thomas, sorry, I don’t know anyone in Hong Kong.
Don’y use a machine for the bench press. Press alone inside a power rack.
I am not a techie and I am not sure whether ‘Strength Stretching’ is available for downloading. Please ask Dennis Armstrong, support@dragondoor.com.
March 5th, 2009
9:31 am
Mr. Tsatsouline:
You messaged me and asked that I let you know my 5×5 PR and my 1RM and the date of the meet and I will map it out for you.
My 5×5 pr is as follows:
Squat: 95 (will go up ten maybe on my light day today and proceed)
Bench: 115 (will go up ten maybe on my light day Friday)
Deadlift: 170 sumo
One rep max would be x 1.25 so:
Squat 118.75
Bench 143.75
Deadlift 212.5
This adds up to a total that isn’t far from 500, which I am pretty pleased with considering I weigh around 125 now and have been using this program since January with time off for being sick a little.
The president of the federation that I am soon to be affiliated with lives within driving distance, so I will be listening to his advice also. Bench shirts, etc. are legal, so that might be a factor, though I have been training raw and am not sure how.
The meet is on May 3rd.
My email address is doctordanny337@yahoo.com should you wish to take this offblog. I I appreciate the kindness, and I do want to let you know that I think of you as a class act now even more than ever.
March 5th, 2009
2:34 pm
Dr. Danny, starting from next week do this on your heavy days:
SQ BP DL
5×5:
1 90 105 165
2 95 110 175
3 100 115 185
4 105 120 195
5 115 125 205
3×3:
6 125 135 215
2×2
7 135 145 225
Don’t forget to eat a loy.
Do NOT use supporting gear. Get strong first, then decide whether it is worth it. Using bench shirts, squat suits, etc. too early in one’s strength career prevents you from learning how to get tight under the bar and leads to other problems.
White lights!
March 6th, 2009
11:42 am
You would suggest going with the 2×2 for opening lifts? Thanks.
March 7th, 2009
9:15 am
Dr. Danny, yes. Ideally get an experienced powerlifter to handle you in the meet—pick your attempts, etc. Power to you!
March 9th, 2009
7:49 pm
Hi Pavel,
Thank you for giving us this program and taking the time to answer questions.
I know that techniques like supramaximal holds can increase strength. Would there be room for such techniques in this program? Also, could one make further gains by integrating twice a day training? Thank you!
March 10th, 2009
8:26 am
From Brian:
“I know that techniques like supramaximal holds can increase strength. Would there be room for such techniques in this program? Also, could one make further gains by integrating twice a day training? Thank you!”
Brian, there is no room for twice a day training on this plan. You could do some overloads, e.g. walking out a 120% SQ, when you are peaking with 3×3 or 2×2.
Don’t overcomplicate.
March 11th, 2009
10:10 pm
Thanks Pavel!
March 12th, 2009
1:47 am
Pavel,
I can’t say thanks enough for your great article and generous attention you’ve been giving to this blog for MONTHS! I’ve already enjoyed a few of your products as well, and recommend them to anyone and everyone. I’ve been on the program for almost three months now, and have added around 100 lbs to each of my lifts as well as gaining significant muscle mass and definition (note that I’m somewhat of a beginner to strength training, but not sports, cardio training, or good ol’ hard work). I’m very happy with the results, and I haven’t even maxxed out yet!
A couple questions have been on my mind lately:
1: How long is too long to wait between sets?
The article states, “Top power dogs take longer; 30 min. is not unheard of.” I have noticed that sometimes I need more than 5 minutes to feel ready to go on to the next set. if 30 minutes is not unheard of, as stated in the article, what is the maximum wait time allowed before it becomes too long and interferes with the training plan? (i.e. waiting 18 hours would be way too long, but what about one or two hours? What about 4 or 5 hours, breaking up the sets between lunchtime and after work?).
2: Lifts are getting noticably more draining and less enjoyable – is this normal or does it mean something?
The lifts are getting harder and less comfortable as I advance in weight. The last two deadlifts were hard to get the nerve up to actually lift – I felt like I didn’t have the energy or will to do it even though I got all 5 sets both times (I know it sounds stupid, but when this ‘feeling’ becomes stronger than the will to continue the program it could be a problem). I’m not suffereing from any specific pain or ache (actually other than expected muscle fatigue I’ve felt great), but the lifts have just become less enjoyable and feel more like ‘work.’ I’m not trying to complain, but I feel that this may be my body’s way of telling me something important – which is the reason I’m bringing it up. Any thoughts? – Below are my 5×5 numbers since they may pertain to this issue. Also, in case it may bear on a solution: For 1.5 weeks I’ve been doing the ‘Enter the Kettlebell’ program minimum in addition to lifting, but the issue in question has been gradually increasing for the last 4-5 weeks or so.
Beginning Numbers (Week of December 25, 2008):
Bodyweight/Height: 200 lbs/5′11″
Squat: 125 lbs
Bench: 95 lbs
DL: 165
Current Numbers (Just got all 5 sets in each lift, Week of March 12, 2009):
Bodyweight/Height: 214 lbs/5′11″
Squat: 235
Bench: 175
DL: 285
Thanks again for all of your help!!
Sincerely,
S.O.
March 13th, 2009
9:03 am
From Starting Off:
“1: How long is too long to wait between sets?”
As long as you want. My “Grease the Groove” plan from ‘The Naked Warrior’ calls for sets throughout the day. For practical reasons 5-10min.
“2: Lifts are getting noticably more draining and less enjoyable – is this normal or does it mean something?”
It means you are getting stronger and digging deeper. When you barely make your sets, go back to lighter weights (‘recycle’) and build up again.
Hold the course, Starting Off, you are doing very well.
March 13th, 2009
10:37 am
Pavel,
Thanks again for your advice and support! Doing some reading on my own lead me to believe I should take a week off from lifting, but recycling sounds like a better way to recover and work past the tough spots. I may also space my 5 sets throughout the day since my gym is across the street from my office (I’m lucky :)). Should recycling be done with all lifts at the same time or just the lift that’s getting overwhelming? Would a good drop be 20 lbs?
Thanks, Pavel!!!
S.O.
March 13th, 2009
12:53 pm
Starting Off, a week off would not hurt. On next cycle back off to 185 in the SQ, 145 in the BP, and 225 in the DL. Eventually you will know how far to start in each lift to peak them all at once.
March 13th, 2009
3:53 pm
Pavel,
I’ll follow your prescription and let you know how it turns out. I’m actually looking forward to it – not to the break mind you, but to coming back to lifting and enjoying it more again :). I remember feeling great for most of the lifting time except the very end, with higher energy levels and a general feeling of power at all times :).
Thanks 1,000,000!!!! :)
S.O.
March 18th, 2009
2:07 am
[...] and Suggested Reading: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts Physical Performance Posts: Why a Calorie Isn’t a Calorie, Intermittent Fasting vs. Caloric [...]
March 22nd, 2009
7:21 pm
?????? ?????,
??????? ??????? ??? ????? ???????? ????? ???????. ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????. ????????? ? ????? ?????.
Hi Pavel,
Big respect for your work and Im very happy to find you here, thank you and wish you all the best.
Thanks to your books and articles i got introduced to kettlebells and right now i feel that i cant live without them. When i was child we had 16kg giria in Russia but i was too small to even think about using it. Im very happy and love them even though my wrists have dark red spots from constant hits of kb but its OK i like it.
I discovered similar program from powerlifting.ru 2 weeks ago and was on it since then. But I trying to use kettlebells between gym days. Doing swings and snatches.
Just wanted to share this.
March 23rd, 2009
9:14 am
Thank you for your kind words, Philip!
March 23rd, 2009
6:34 pm
Comrade Pavel,
I can’t believe you still take time to reply to posts here. Thanks!
I am having a short of a sticking point early in the program. I started several weeks ago and although I haven’t been able to life exactly on the schedule, I haven’t missed many workouts. However, unlike people who have been posting here, I seem to be stuck at a particular weight about 20 pounds above where I started(I started pretty conservatively). Every week, I can make the first set and the second set starts getting really tough and it’s down-hill from there on. However, I have been seeing some muscle mass gain and some fat loss, so I am sticking with it. I don’t understand what is going on. Am I supposed to cycle back to a lower weight so quickly?
March 24th, 2009
3:12 pm
John, how long are you resting between sets? What are the weights you are using and what is your training background?
March 24th, 2009
5:18 pm
Pavel,
Again, thanks a lot for taking time to answer questions. I am 5′10, weigh roughly 140lbs, I have never had a consistent workout schedule. The max I’ve benched for 5 reps comfortably was 135lbs, deads were 165lbs a year ago.
Currently, I wait 5 mins between sets.
125lbs on Bench, 135 on Squat and 145lbs on Deads. I hadn’t squatted prior to starting this program. I have been gaining some muscle and losing some fat, but I would really like to see better strength gains. I am tempted to switch to the PTP workout, but I think I would like to see some mass gains.
March 24th, 2009
7:47 pm
[...] like wrestling bears, pounding vodka, crushing capitalists, and lifting weights. Case in point, Pavel Tsatsouline. A former Russian Special Forces trainer, Tsatsouline has made a name for himself recently as a [...]
March 25th, 2009
8:59 am
From JohnM:
“I am 5?10, weigh roughly 140lbs, I have never had a consistent workout schedule. The max I’ve benched for 5 reps comfortably was 135lbs, deads were 165lbs a year ago.Currently, I wait 5 mins between sets. 125lbs on Bench, 135 on Squat and 145lbs on Deads. I hadn’t squatted prior to starting this program. I have been gaining some muscle and losing some fat, but I would really like to see better strength gains. I am tempted to switch to the PTP workout, but I think I would like to see some mass gains.”
John, you just need to get more aggressive. Put your mind to it.
March 27th, 2009
1:02 pm
Pavel,
I’m really drawn to the 5×5 routine because of its simplicity and efficiency. There are just a few things I would appreciate you clearing up:
The first is the lack of variety that was addressed in the article. If you are doing the same 3 exercises each workout, then doesn’t your body adapt to that range of motion so that over time your results won’t be as significant? That’s the general reason, I think, why people stress variety in exercises.
Also, if you depend on those 3 exercises for training secondary muscles, then won’t you’re pecs, triceps, hamstrings and lower back develop disproportionately to your calves, biceps, abbs?
This last point is more particular to me. I’m a tall guy (6, 5) and struggle with dead lift. Is there an easier variation I could use to work up to a regular dead lift?
Any thoughts you have I’d greatly appreciate.
Thanks
March 27th, 2009
3:24 pm
Miro20, variety is overrated. The strongest people in the world keep doing the same thing for years—only with heavier weights. Indeed, your body stops responding, but this is where cycling comes in.
Due to the phenomenon of irradiation (explained in my book ‘Power to the People!’) when the weights are heavy enough all the muscles get worked. Few powerlifters do non-sense like curls, yet they all have huge pipes. Once you work up to 400 in the SQ and DL, your abs will work harder than they ever have in “ab exercises”. A calf concession is reasonable. Throw in a set or two after squats. Or, if size is not your goal, just jump rope.
Pull sumo.
March 28th, 2009
11:44 am
Pavel,
then do you think when starting out it makes sense to add a few supplements for secondary muscle groups. While the guys squatting 400 are getting all the groups worked, if you’re only lifting 150, would some additional core work be beneficial rather than detrimental?
March 28th, 2009
11:50 am
Miro20, I wouldn’t. The plan was designed by an experienced lifter and coach and tested on many athletes. Why second guess him?
March 28th, 2009
9:16 pm
Hi Pavel. I’ve been into weight training for just under two years and have done a lot of experimenting. I was led to your name from a very strong guy and Power To The People worked wonders for me. I went from a max deadlift of 315lbs. to 415lbs. in three months, and due to the frequency of the lifts I learned to truly love the deadlift.
Anyway, I want to say thank you very much and tell you that you are one of the only voices in the iron game that I have come to trust (almost) completely. I always keep a bit of healthy skepticism on hand for practical purposes.
I have two questions about the 80/20 set up:
1) Will the Power To The People system of working only 1 or 2 sets more often work equally to the 5×5? In other words, Mon/Wed/Fri- BP 1×5, SQ 1×5, DL 1×5. It seems like this would be a faster progression and help with the GTG system. Also, since PL meets consist of performing these lifts on the same day wouldn’t it help to train that way?
2) What are your thoughts on mixing in some conditioning (15-25 mins) after each lifting sessions. I have decided that powerlifting is the way to go for me, and hope to compete by the end of the year, but I gain fat easily and don’t want to sacrifice appearance entirely. Is it necessary to put strength training on hold when it’s time to cut the fat? Sorry, slipped a third question in on you.
I apologize for making this so long, but it’s a real honor to have direct access to your advice, and I greatly value it. Thanks for your time and all that you’ve done for us “iron heads”. Na zdrovyeh!
March 29th, 2009
11:21 am
I have to apologize, Pavel. After taking the time to go back and read your previous comment answers, my second question was answered. Still curious about incorporating the PTP plan for hardcore powerlifting training. Thanks again.
March 30th, 2009
11:01 am
Kyle, thank you for your kind words!
There are many ways of effectively spread the volume over a week. If neural adaptations are what you are after, doing less more often is better (PTP). If you want hypertrophy, it is better to get smoked less often (5×5, even 10-20×5). If you are not obsessed with either putting on weight or not putting it on, alternating the two works well. Not more frequently than 12 weeks though.
March 30th, 2009
4:11 pm
Sounds great. So, would you say that I could expect to continue to make strength gains even when dropping a few pounds of fat, as long as it’s done correctly and not in a “crash diet” format?
March 31st, 2009
8:41 am
Kyle, in the DL and SQ—definitely. In the BP—you never know.
April 17th, 2009
5:57 pm
[...] my body weight training had me on the weight pile. At about the same time, I came across this article by Pavel Tsatsouline on Tim Ferriss’s [...]
April 25th, 2009
6:42 am
Pavel
This article and your responses to it have made me want to check out some of your other books and DVDs. Obviously I don’t want to purchase every single product you have ever created but which would you recommend I get?
On a separate note what are your thoughts on Tim’s “From Geek to Freak” program. What he recommends appears to be very different from what you wrote about here and your “bear” program.
April 28th, 2009
11:05 pm
Thank you so much!
I went to the gym to have a workout planned for me. The result : 1h of exercises to train my stabilization muscle and looking as a sissy doing it.
I gained 25 (from 130 to 155) and 30 (from 160 to 190) pound of muscle twice in my life. How I did it, the bench press.
I can not wait to do this training. I think it’s great for guy’s who are genetically better for strength training then cardio.
As Tim said in his book, develop your strength’s, don’t fix your weaknesses.
Thanks to you both to be great inspiration.
Nick
May 7th, 2009
12:19 am
[...] was the second day of Pavel’s RKC kettlebell course, and I’d seen more than a few people wearing what appeared to be gecko [...]
May 7th, 2009
7:39 am
[...] never hear the end of it when I start setting some PL records Anyways, go read the post Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts. & learn somethin will [...]
May 7th, 2009
12:15 pm
Pavel,
You are truly a great teacher to answer so many questions. I asked earlier about stretching and you said it depended on your goals. If I was to follow Faleev’s advice of “Faleev stresses that you must wrap up each strength workout with static stretches”, should I order your DVD and do the stretching in that? (http://www.dragondoor.com/dv024.html#order)
Right now my 5×5 poundages have jumped to:
SQ – 425
BN – 285
DL – 405
I’m working on competing soon, I’ll probably get back on here and ask another question regarding how you reduce to 4×4, 3×3, 2×2.
May 7th, 2009
2:12 pm
Hey Pavel,
Yu didnt mention anything about diet. Doesnt diet matter?
May 9th, 2009
6:30 pm
A HUGE thanks to Tim & Pavel for bringing this system to my attention, it has completely changed my attitude towards weight lifting. I’m stronger, leaner and gained over 5 pounds! I first read this back in early April, and after enduring all the inane comments, I followed the program, the whole program & nothing but the program, here were my results after 4 weeks:
Strength gains:
Squat: 135 to 175
Bench: 145 to 170
Dead-lift: 185 to 220
Size gains/losses:
gained 5.5lbs,
waist decreased just under an inch (from 34″ to 33.125″)
Chest increased over an inch (from 41.5″ 40 42.625″)
Quads increased a quarter inch (from 22.5″ to 22.75″)
Thanks again for sharing this.
DK
May 13th, 2009
7:55 am
Pavel:
Once I am hitting 3x body weight squat, 2x bench press, and 3x deadlift; would you recommend that I cycle, maybe using one set/rep range for an amount of time, then another, and so on?
Also, how might a deloading phase affect the weights used as openers in competition?
May 14th, 2009
8:13 am
An important note to those using this program: After the benches get ‘heavy’ for you (you have a week where you think you might not get all 5 sets, but do), switch to increasing only 5 lbs per week instead of 10. Maximum benching potential is significantly lower than squats or deads, so this is in line with % gains you should expect on this type of program. This has helped me push my bench farther and farther, and it keeps the bench from ‘petering out’ too soon. I would suggest that this would allow you to get higher overall in the bench than going up too fast as well.
S.O.
May 16th, 2009
10:38 pm
5×5 should be the cornerstone of 90% of those looking to ‘bulk up’ a bit and add muscle for the first time.
Indeed, even after the beginner phase, 5×5 is still an effective tool!
As the article outlines, intensity must be changed as per the light/dynamic days and increased intensity (read classically) as competition day draws near.
May 16th, 2009
10:40 pm
I’d also like to point out that in the photo, John Inzer is using a DOUBLE OVERHAND GRIP.
Impressive! I can barely lift anything this way!
May 18th, 2009
4:56 am
Inzer is using a mixed grip in the photo, I can see his thumb on his left hand. I suggest using mixed grip from the start for those wanting to improve their deadlift to over 200 lbs. I started with overhand and switching to mixed grip when the weight got heavy was needed but would have been easier had I started off training the mixed grip in the first place. Don’t forget to alternate the grip from set to set. I started at 165 lbs on my deadlift and brought it up to 285 lbs (for 5×5) in 13 weeks.
S.O.
June 1st, 2009
6:07 pm
Update: Maxxed yesterday on Bench and Squat. Benched 245 lbs for 1 rep and Squatted 290 lbs for 1 rep. Deadlifts on Wednesday should be 350+ lbs for 1 rep (last Wednesday I did 2×2 with 325 lbs). I stared around 100 lbs bench, 135 lbs squat, and 165 lbs deadlift for 5×5 in late December ‘08, and used only the program outlined here with no significant modification. Get Pavel’s ‘Strength Stretching’ DVD, as it gives great tips on stretching and general technique for the lifts used in this program. Thanks again, Pavel, for your outstanding advice and generous answers to our question here on this blog!
S.O.
PS: also, I gained a significant amount of muscle and lost a significant amount of fat by combining this workout scheme with some light low impact cardio (recumbent bike and swimming) as well as a low glycemic index diet (similar to Tim’s listed here). Very impressed! Now I’m ready for some kettlebell action to burn the remaining fat and show off my muscles!
June 8th, 2009
6:56 pm
From George:
“This article and your responses to it have made me want to check out some of your other books and DVDs. Obviously I don’t want to purchase every single product you have ever created but which would you recommend I get? On a separate note what are your thoughts on Tim’s “From Geek to Freak” program. What he recommends appears to be very different from what you wrote about here and your “bear” program.”
George, the product choice will depend on your needs. What are your training background and goals?
Tim’s plan gets the job done, obviously. More than one way to skin the cat.
June 8th, 2009
6:59 pm
From Alexander:
“Pavel, you are truly a great teacher to answer so many questions. I asked earlier about stretching and you said it depended on your goals. If I was to follow Faleev’s advice of “Faleev stresses that you must wrap up each strength workout with static stretches”, should I order your DVD and do the stretching in that? (http://www.dragondoor.com/dv024.html#order)
Right now my 5×5 poundages have jumped to:
SQ – 425
BN – 285
DL – 405
I’m working on competing soon, I’ll probably get back on here and ask another question regarding how you reduce to 4×4, 3×3, 2×2.”
Alexander, thank you for your kind words!
Good lifting! With proper peaking you are looking at 475-315-475. The ‘Relax into Stretch’ book is appropriate for you: http://www.dragondoor.com/b14.html
June 8th, 2009
7:00 pm
From Sam:
“Hey Pavel, you didnt mention anything about diet. Doesnt diet matter?”
Sam, it does. Eat. A lot. If you don’t hate food, you are not eating enough. I am not joking.
June 8th, 2009
7:02 pm
From DK:
“A HUGE thanks to Tim & Pavel for bringing this system to my attention, it has completely changed my attitude towards weight lifting. I’m stronger, leaner and gained over 5 pounds! I first read this back in early April, and after enduring all the inane comments, I followed the program, the whole program & nothing but the program, here were my results after 4 weeks:
Strength gains:
Squat: 135 to 175
Bench: 145 to 170
Dead-lift: 185 to 220
Size gains/losses:
gained 5.5lbs,
waist decreased just under an inch (from 34? to 33.125?)
Chest increased over an inch (from 41.5? 40 42.625?)
Quads increased a quarter inch (from 22.5? to 22.75?)”
DK, keep up the pressure, you can easily double your SQ and DL and up your BP by at least 50% on this plan. Power to you!
June 8th, 2009
7:04 pm
From Dr. Danny:
“Once I am hitting 3x body weight squat, 2x bench press, and 3x deadlift; would you recommend that I cycle, maybe using one set/rep range for an amount of time, then another, and so on? Also, how might a deloading phase affect the weights used as openers in competition?”
Dr. Danny, cross that bridge when you get there. There is no reason to switch to a different program at that point but you training logs will teach you something about optimizing cycling, unloading, etc. It is individual when you are an advanced lifter.
June 8th, 2009
7:07 pm
From Starting Off:
“Update: Maxxed yesterday on Bench and Squat. Benched 245 lbs for 1 rep and Squatted 290 lbs for 1 rep. Deadlifts on Wednesday should be 350+ lbs for 1 rep (last Wednesday I did 2×2 with 325 lbs). I stared around 100 lbs bench, 135 lbs squat, and 165 lbs deadlift for 5×5 in late December ‘08, and used only the program outlined here with no significant modification. Get Pavel’s ‘Strength Stretching’ DVD, as it gives great tips on stretching and general technique for the lifts used in this program. Thanks again, Pavel, for your outstanding advice and generous answers to our question here on this blog!
S.O.
PS: also, I gained a significant amount of muscle and lost a significant amount of fat by combining this workout scheme with some light low impact cardio (recumbent bike and swimming) as well as a low glycemic index diet (similar to Tim’s listed here). Very impressed! Now I’m ready for some kettlebell action to burn the remaining fat and show off my muscles!”
Well done, Starting Off! The power of narrow focus.
June 14th, 2009
5:35 pm
[...] I’ll be following the recommendations of Pavel Tsatsouline and Alexander Faleev. [...]
June 30th, 2009
3:59 pm
Dear Pavel and Tim,
I cant thank you enough for publishing this fantastic workout. I am in your debt, and I can only hope to repay you one day.
My lifts have increased like crazy, Since April to today (8 weeks) they look as follows:
Bench 140 This week 180lb
DL 160 This week 200lb
Squatz 150 This week 190lbs
I havent gained all that much weight (still at 165ish, at 5′11″), but I am getting bigger. I cant seem to eat enough, so thats probably the problem. But I am definitely in the best shape of my life.
I do have one question, I cant seem to get any size gains on my right side. I had a nerve injury years ago of the shoulder, so I think thats the problem. My trap and my shoulder are not growing as much as the left side.
Any advice would be welcome and appreciated. Maybe I should add extra work to the right side?
Again, even if you dont respond, thank you for this fantastic workout. So liberating and straightforward.
July 6th, 2009
10:40 am
I am now doing 3×3 to try to stay in a lower weight class and am wondering what to multiply by to estimate the one rep max. Ex: With 5×5, it’s weight x 1.2.
July 9th, 2009
5:31 am
Message to all: Impressed with Pavel’s sound advice and generous help here, I moved on to using kettlebells per his book: ‘Enter the Kettlebell’. I’ve seen good overall strength gains as well as some muscle growth around my shoulders, lats, and hamstrings. I highly recommend anyone making progress with this program to consider alternating powerlifting or barbell strength training with one of Pavel’s kettlebell programs to ‘connect the dots’ and fill in the gaps in the strength chain. Doing the first workout program in the book, I’ve helped make the strength gains from this powerlifting program more functional and applicable to real life – very cool! Also, the dragon door forum is an endless source of great information on this and other related topics. (www.dragondoor.com)
S.O.
July 11th, 2009
6:00 pm
From AdrianM:
“I cant seem to eat enough, so thats probably the problem. But I am definitely in the best shape of my life…
“I do have one question, I cant seem to get any size gains on my right side. I had a nerve injury years ago of the shoulder, so I think thats the problem. My trap and my shoulder are not growing as much as the left side.”
Adrian, you need to make yourself eat. Carry food with you, plan every day of eating.
You should see a medical professional for your imbalance.
July 11th, 2009
6:02 pm
From Starting Off:
“Message to all: Impressed with Pavel’s sound advice and generous help here, I moved on to using kettlebells per his book: ‘Enter the Kettlebell’. I’ve seen good overall strength gains as well as some muscle growth around my shoulders, lats, and hamstrings. I highly recommend anyone making progress with this program to consider alternating powerlifting or barbell strength training with one of Pavel’s kettlebell programs to ‘connect the dots’ and fill in the gaps in the strength chain. Doing the first workout program in the book, I’ve helped make the strength gains from this powerlifting program more functional and applicable to real life – very cool! Also, the dragon door forum is an endless source of great information on this and other related topics. (www.dragondoor.com)”
Great to hear, Starting Off! Although you would be better rotating between PL and ‘Enter the Kettlebell!’ every 3 months instead of doing them at the same time.
S.O.
July 25th, 2009
12:31 pm
What is your opinion of doing SQ and BP on a Smith Machine?
You worry me abit when you say that if you don’t hate food your not eating enough “and I’m not joking”. Surely your appetite tells you when you need eat? I don’t really like the idea of forcefeeding myself (and eating is a joy I don’t wish to lose)
oh, and I’m pushing 50 – am I past it for this?
July 26th, 2009
5:15 am
… one more question, what about cycling? how long should should I stick with this program before taking a break, and for how long should that break be? And is there any exercise variety?
I have just done my first session today – 5 x 5 squats on a smith machine with 80kg worth of discs (I am 1.83m tall and weigh 95kg). Spent one hour in the Gym total. I feel like I’ve had a work out!!!! I’m going to do the 4 day routine.
July 30th, 2009
12:36 pm
From nick:
“What is your opinion of doing SQ and BP on a Smith Machine?”
A great way to get hurt.
“You worry me abit when you say that if you don’t hate food your not eating enough “and I’m not joking”. Surely your appetite tells you when you need eat? I don’t really like the idea of forcefeeding myself (and eating is a joy I don’t wish to lose)”
I am not joking. Carrying a lot of muscle is very costly to the body and it needs to be convinced that it is worth it (train heavy) and it will not starve (food is in abundance).
“oh, and I’m pushing 50 – am I past it for this?”
Not at all. My father took up powerlifing at 70. Less than 2 years later he pulled a 374 pound deadlift weighing 181 (no belt or any other supportive gear) for an American record in his age group. Although, to revisit your eating question, for health reasons you may want to consider getting stronger without getting much bigger. Smart successful powerlifters drop into a lighter class as they get older. Marty Gallagher used to compete as a 275, as a master he has competed as a 198.
“… one more question, what about cycling? how long should should I stick with this program before taking a break, and for how long should that break be? And is there any exercise variety?”
Provided you cycle, you don’t need variety. There is no reason why you can’t stay on the above program indefinitely. “Variety” is an industry buzz word intended to sell you more gimmicks. Top Russian just SQ, BP, DL with a couple of variations of the above to address individual weaknesses (e.g. half deadlifts just up to the knees to strengthen the start). But you don’t need to worry about that for a long time.
“I have just done my first session today – 5 x 5 squats on a smith machine with 80kg worth of discs (I am 1.83m tall and weigh 95kg). Spent one hour in the Gym total. I feel like I’ve had a work out!!!! I’m going to do the 4 day routine.”
Start with 60kg or even less and use a barbell. Power to you, Nick!
July 30th, 2009
12:54 pm
Thank you Pavel for your advice.
One of your answers leads me to another question – I must ask, how/why is a Smith Machine “a great way to get hurt”?
Thanks again, Nick.
July 30th, 2009
2:04 pm
Pavel,
Thank you very much for participating in this discussion!
July 31st, 2009
11:00 pm
Hi Pavel,
I have some gymnastic rings. With the above program, would some planche lever progressions (static) on the rings at the end of the workouts affect recovery & strength gains much? Also say 3 or 4 singles with say a progressive dip and chin/inverted body row?
August 1st, 2009
4:24 pm
Hey Pavel, I was wondering if this type of program could be used for weighted chinups? I currently pull my bodyweight(150.6) + 167.5lbs for one rep max. I was flirting with the idea of pttp for it, but your actually input on it would help give me some focus. My current workout is as follows:
Monday:
Weighted Chin:(+125lbs) 5×3
Hanging Leg Raise: 2×5
Tuesday&Friday:
Weighted Pushups:(+45) 5×15
Wednesday&Saturday
Pistols:(+2.5) 5×4
Thursday:
Weighted Pullups:(+90) 5×3
Hanging Leg Raise: 2×5
Sunday:
Bleacher Sprints: 5 rounds of 5 sprints
Thank you!
August 6th, 2009
3:39 am
[...] was the second day of Pavel’s RKC kettlebell course, and I’d seen more than a few people wearing what appeared to be gecko [...]
August 20th, 2009
7:13 am
From nick:
“I must ask, how/why is a Smith Machine “a great way to get hurt”?”
Nick, please read my book ‘Power to the People!’, http://www.dragondoor.com/b10.html
August 20th, 2009
7:15 am
From Ivo:
“I have some gymnastic rings. With the above program, would some planche lever progressions (static) on the rings at the end of the workouts affect recovery & strength gains much? Also say 3 or 4 singles with say a progressive dip and chin/inverted body row?”
Ivo, save ring work for another training cycle. One of the keys to the success on the Faleev’s program is doing nothing else.
August 20th, 2009
7:16 am
From Travis:
“Hey Pavel, I was wondering if this type of program could be used for weighted chinups? I currently pull my bodyweight(150.6) + 167.5lbs for one rep max.”
Travis, impressive performance!
Pullups can handle a lot higher volume, I would look for a different training plan, one with many sets of low reps and 3-5 days a week of pullups.
September 8th, 2009
10:47 pm
Pavel, just got 3 of your books which answers the smith machine question – can’t fire a cannon ball from a canoe now can we! but why are you recommending a different course to the one in PTTP – more sets, more exercises?
September 10th, 2009
3:37 am
Hi Pavel,
I’m aiming to increase my flexibility to do the splits. Using the 80/20 rule, what are the best stretching exercises to achieve this?
Thank you
Ben
September 10th, 2009
4:50 am
[...] at this post on Tim Ferriss’ blog where Pavel Tstatsouline posted a killer powerlifting workout (which I am using, right now, without [...]
September 21st, 2009
2:43 pm
Pavel is a bad mama jamma… Simple yet effective im sure that came from some aspect of his special forces life. No B.S. I like it
September 26th, 2009
3:01 pm
Pavel, i will be doing this program in a few months i have read most of your books and they really have made me strong. it really is simple to get strong and i admire your honesty and time taken to teach us the simplicity and hard work of strength training.
God bless you and Russia :)
September 29th, 2009
5:50 pm
From nick:
“Pavel, just got 3 of your books which answers the smith machine question – can’t fire a cannon ball from a canoe now can we! but why are you recommending a different course to the one in PTTP – more sets, more exercises?”
Nick, there is more than one way to get the job done. You may alternate cycles of Faleev and PTP Bear.
September 29th, 2009
5:52 pm
From Ben Palmer:
“I’m aiming to increase my flexibility to do the splits. Using the 80/20 rule, what are the best stretching exercises to achieve this?”
Ben, the Cossack stretch (see my book ‘Super Joints’, http://www.dragondoor.com/b16.html.
September 29th, 2009
5:53 pm
Thank you for your kind words, Keith and Re!
October 7th, 2009
10:18 am
Pavel, first of all, I would like to thank you for spending the time to reply to everyone so far. A comradely display of kindness and humility! Even if you don’t reply to my specific query, the comments section thus far has been a valuable supplement to the original article. You have mentioned that “light” conditioning would be ok; I was wondering what you think about one or two days of Viking Warrior conditioning, and if so, on which days? Would this be too much stress? Thank you so much.
October 16th, 2009
10:22 am
Pavel – in Johnnie Jackson’s deadlift video he says he starts light, keeps the reps at 5 and pryamids up to a heavy weight. Is a ramped 5×5 an option rather than a static 5×5?
October 26th, 2009
4:10 pm
I didn’t know where else to post this, but I was wondering is your stance on lifestyle drugs. I am currently researching drugs like CX717 and modafinil for their productivity potential and non-negative side effects.
The above drugs have been clinically proven to increase memory retention and sleep efficiency without any dangerous side effects of addiction.
I think this would be a great blog topic or a perfect addition to your upcoming book in a supplement section.
October 26th, 2009
5:37 pm
From John Pearson:”
You have mentioned that “light” conditioning would be ok; I was wondering what you think about one or two days of Viking Warrior conditioning, and if so, on which days? Would this be too much stress?”
John, thank you for your kind words! You might be able to get away with two days of VWC. Ideally I would practice VWC on mornings after evening PL workouts.
October 26th, 2009
5:38 pm
From Rick Hussey:
“In Johnnie Jackson’s deadlift video he says he starts light, keeps the reps at 5 and pryamids up to a heavy weight. Is a ramped 5×5 an option rather than a static 5×5?”
Rick, there are many effective interpretations of 5×5. I prefer using the same weight in all sets.
October 26th, 2009
5:40 pm
From Danny Davis:
“I was wondering is your stance on lifestyle drugs.”
Danny, just say no ;]
October 31st, 2009
12:20 am
The Johnnie Jackson video has been removed from youtube FYI.
November 25th, 2009
3:26 am
Com. Pavel, you mentioned that one might get away with two Vo2max sessions a week while being on this program.
Right now I´m only able to train once a day (in the evening). On what days should I add the Vo2max kettlebell snatches after the weightlifting?
After the bench pressing on tuesday and friday?
What about doing only one session on saturdays, would that still be effective?
Thanks for the great article!
November 27th, 2009
4:55 pm
Hello Pavel. Finally a program I love. A week into it and I can’t wait for the next. I feel alive when I’m done. Quick question. No belt for now. Should I keep going that way or bring a belt into play? You are totally awesome for responding to us. Thanks !!!!
November 30th, 2009
9:51 pm
[...] as well. Why stretch after the workout you ask? I think Tim Ferris explains it perfectly on his blog: [Powerlifting Champion Alexander] Faleev stresses that you must wrap up each strength workout with [...]
December 2nd, 2009
2:37 am
Hi Pavel. I have read this post before, and have only recently begun to try it out. Also read your book, Power to the People. It really expanded my understanding on strength training, and I am enjoying trying it out.
Just a few questions:
1. Between the Bent Press, Bench Press and Overhead Press, which one is best suited for strength gains? As I understand, Bench Press is more widely accepted but Bent Press is what the good ol’ strong men of the past use.
2. (From PttP) For each rep of the Bent Press, do I drop the bar to floor and start over or just lower it to shoulder and press again?
It is just so much fun to lift a bar overhead with one hand. Thanks for the inspiration, and power to you!
December 3rd, 2009
11:30 am
Pavel – just want to be in all around good shape for the Air Force Reserve. Need to pass PT test twice a year and be strong and lean. I like KB’s but want goodstrength as well. I think having a strong bench, dead and squat would take care of a lot of my goals but I still want to run my 1.5 miles in 10 minutes…Would you recommend a good plan?
December 6th, 2009
6:35 am
Hi guys,
I have been making my own programs inspired by Pttp and Naked warrior for the past year or so and have been getting tremendous results. When I came across this program, I knew it was brilliant so decided to do it with as little modification as possible (Pavel’s principles I trust almost exclusively in the iron game as well).
I went with front squats to full olympic depth, bench, and sumo deadlift (I am 6′0″ with a 37″ inseam, so the front squat and sumo deadlift are better biomechanically for my long legs). My initial bests were 225lbs for the squat, 170lbs for the bench and 415lbs for the deadlift (I had a track and field background, so my deadlift started pretty good).
I tried to do the 5x/wk program but had to modify to the 4x/wk when life got in the way. I was doing a single set of pullups after the lifts, but after week 6 or so, I realized that little bit extra was jeapordizing my recovery. He is right, do the program EXACTLY AS IT IS DESCRIBED! IT WORKS! I’ve been lifting fairly regularly for the last 10 years, so I’d say that even for fairly experienced lifters, you have much to gain by doing this program.
I started the program at around 175lbs, and didn’t want to gain much weight as I am planning on cycling fairly competitively in the spring and summer. about halfway through the program, I was starting to get a bit of a reputation around my gym as the skinny guy who can lift so much weight!!
At the end of 12 weeks, at 180lbs body weight, I tested at 285 on the front squat, 185 on the bench (first time in my life over my body weight) and 505 for the deadlift. I felt sick on the squat day, and the deadlift felt fairly easy, so I will re-test both of those in about another 3 or 4 lifts.
Here is a video of the deadlift test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojsCWtp-rY4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojsCWtp-rY4
Between Pavel’s programs (BB, Etk, Pttp, and NW), you have plenty enough information to be able to acheive any goal you want in the weightroom!
Thank you comrades for this brilliant program, and to Pavel: Power to you!
Moses Bernard
December 6th, 2009
11:57 pm
Benefit of combining Pavel 5/5 with Colorado experiment with another 80/20 reduction:
One set of slow Colorado pushups proved to me that one set will do me for the day. Pavel shows how 3 strength exercises provide more benefit than other types of lifting. Then it hit me. If you applied 80/20 again by combining these two programs what would it look like?
Colorado does ONE SET per exercise. Pavel does ONE EXERCISE per day. What does that give you? One Set x One exercise = No waiting in between sets and maximum benefit per minute spent.
The 80%? Pavel wastes the 5 minutes between sets for 40 minutes wasted per workout plus the 10 minute commute to and from the gym for a total of 60 wasted minutes not including shower. Colorado also wastes the commute to the gym does suboptimal exercises and the rest between sets and does exercises that waste Pavel’s time.
For maximum per minute spent: Hit the barbell for one set of 5 slow reps with 100% control and energy. Shower. Take a day off. Monday stretch and bench one slow, controlled set with the right weight and perfect form and hit the showers. Done. Wednesday one set squat. Friday deadlift. Done. Take weekend off. Total workout: 15 minutes a week including stretch and changing weights on the bar. With the extra strength and energy, I’ll jog through my errands, dart up the stairs, and hop through my open car window like them duke boys.
No waiting between sets. One and done. I’ll use the extra energy for flying up stairs, jogging through the grocery store parking lot, enjoying an impromptu jog or bike ride. Not the fastest gain per month, but the fastest gain per minute of exercise, maximum muscle recovery time and a joyful life. Now where will I put my barbell?
December 15th, 2009
10:50 am
Pavel,
I’ve read that many PLs prefer 1-3 reps, i was wondering which is better in developing strength (i.e 3 vs 5 reps)?
Thanks a lot
December 26th, 2009
5:28 pm
Question for Pavel:
I have run into an issue with increasing the weight by 10lbs in the Squat and Deadlift.
For example: Lets say I have completed 5 x 5 at 150lbs. for Squat and Deadlift. At this weight, it is difficult to get 5 x 5, but not so difficult that my form suffers in any way.
The next week I go up to 160lbs., and find it difficult enough that my form suffers. This leads to some knee and back pain, which is obviously not a good thing.
Should I go back down to 150lbs, and stay at this weight for several weeks until it becomes noticeably easier to get 5 x 5, and then try going back up to 160lbs?
January 4th, 2010
9:44 pm
From Hank:
“Com. Pavel, you mentioned that one might get away with two Vo2max sessions a week while being on this program. Right now I´m only able to train once a day (in the evening). On what days should I add the Vo2max kettlebell snatches after the weightlifting? After the bench pressing on tuesday and friday? What about doing only one session on saturdays, would that still be effective?”
Hank, try it on Saturdays only first. Even though, based on today’s science, it should not be enough, many people in the trenches are getting excellent results from doing the V02max protocol once a week.
January 4th, 2010
9:45 pm
From The Daver:
“Hello Pavel. Finally a program I love. A week into it and I can’t wait for the next. I feel alive when I’m done. Quick question. No belt for now. Should I keep going that way or bring a belt into play? You are totally awesome for responding to us. Thanks !!!!”
The Daver, even in competition there are guys who don’t wear a belt. And if you don’t plan on competing, definitely forget about it. Power to you!
January 4th, 2010
9:48 pm
From TTTimo:
ANSWERS IN CAPS
1. Between the Bent Press, Bench Press and Overhead Press, which one is best suited for strength gains? As I understand, Bench Press is more widely accepted but Bent Press is what the good ol’ strong men of the past use.
IT IS NOT A QUESTION THAT CAN BE ANSWERED IN A SHORT POST. BUT IF YOU ARE AFTER MUSCLE MASS—BENCH.
2. (From PttP) For each rep of the Bent Press, do I drop the bar to floor and start over or just lower it to shoulder and press again?
IT IS THE SIDE PRESS, NOT THE BENT PRESS, IN PTP. DON’T DROP THE BAR.
January 4th, 2010
9:50 pm
From Nick G:
“Pavel – just want to be in all around good shape for the Air Force Reserve. Need to pass PT test twice a year and be strong and lean. I like KB’s but want goodstrength as well. I think having a strong bench, dead and squat would take care of a lot of my goals but I still want to run my 1.5 miles in 10 minutes…Would you recommend a good plan?”
Nick, follow the plan from the article and run 3/week a few hours after lifting or on days free of lifting. Easy runs, 1.5 miles in 10min is an easy goal.
January 4th, 2010
9:52 pm
From Moses Bernard DC:
“I have been making my own programs inspired by Pttp and Naked warrior for the past year or so and have been getting tremendous results.”
Thank you for your kind words, Moses!
January 4th, 2010
9:54 pm
From Roger:
“Benefit of combining Pavel 5/5 with Colorado experiment with another 80/20 reduction..”
Roger, mixing programs is a sure path to failure. Pick one plan and stick to it.
January 4th, 2010
9:57 pm
From Wael:
“I’ve read that many PLs prefer 1-3 reps, i was wondering which is better in developing strength (i.e 3 vs 5 reps)?”
Wael, with a few exceptions, 5 rep sets build strength more reliably than singles and triples, because you do not train so much on the nerve and because you also build muscle mass.
Powerlifters generally do singles and triples only right before the meet and stick with fives most of the time. Of course, this does not apply to the WSB, but they get their reps in through other exercises.
January 5th, 2010
12:40 am
i have started to follow parts of this workout by deadlifting every other day and i’m starting to get some good definition in my arms my glutes and my neck and back i’ve also lost 3 inches from my gut in 2 weeks
i’m currently at 50kg which i know isn’t huge in powerlifting terms however i’m only a beginner and i’m managing to slap on extra plates each workout
i’m starting to get in to the best shape i’ve been in for years i’m 45 years old.
my current workout’s are 5×8 with rest intervals in between sets.
this is excellent stuff everyone dealiftings good for you .
January 6th, 2010
6:30 am
Right after a deadlift set, I like to leap up and grab a pullup bar (the kind that run perpendicular to the shoulders) and just ROCKET up to the ceiling. It feels like gravity has disappeared and you’re on the moon. No purpose, really, it’s just fun.
January 7th, 2010
1:06 am
Hi
Love the articles, this training programme is great; making good strength gains but need to drop some fat and need some advice as and when to fit cardio into this.
Bodyfat is far too high at around 22% (tanita scales, not great but same set used for last 6 years so consistent).
Currently doing the 5 days routine (work, young family etc). What would you suggest, have tried early morning cardio but young baby and sleep patterns means its not consistent at all.
Any help appreciated
January 8th, 2010
1:18 am
1 month on my above described variation. Total workout time about 65 minutes this month. Commute time: 0 minutes. Female friend’s comment: “I know you’ve been working out. I can really tell.” Results: maximum results per minute worked invested and the belt moved one notch with an appropriate diet. Strictly abstained from all other exercise other than 2-3 flights of stairs per day. Weight used: 65 pounds. Reps about 10-20 depending on exercise. The goal was efficiency. Goal attained. Thanks for the support.
January 10th, 2010
7:25 pm
From Scott:
“Love the articles, this training programme is great; making good strength gains but need to drop some fat and need some advice as and when to fit cardio into this.Bodyfat is far too high at around 22% (tanita scales, not great but same set used for last 6 years so consistent).”
Scott, consider kettlebell training. Our starter kit has what you need: http://www.dragondoor.com/kkb009.html
January 10th, 2010
7:27 pm
From Roger:
“1 month on my above described variation. Total workout time about 65 minutes this month. Commute time: 0 minutes. Female friend’s comment: “I know you’ve been working out. I can really tell.” Results: maximum results per minute worked invested and the belt moved one notch with an appropriate diet. Strictly abstained from all other exercise other than 2-3 flights of stairs per day. Weight used: 65 pounds. Reps about 10-20 depending on exercise. The goal was efficiency. Goal attained. Thanks for the support.”
Keep it up, Roger! Your goals: 1.5 times bodyweight BP, 2xbw SQ, 2.5xbw DL. Power to you!
January 25th, 2010
9:17 am
[...] Tim Ferriss’ blog has an awesome minimalist pure strength workout in its archives. I highly suggest reading it here. [...]
January 25th, 2010
11:29 am
He says the optimal workout time would be about an hour. But with one excersise for 5 sets, assuming 5 minutes rest between sets, what else is there to do the fill that hour. In this scenario, a bench press work out would only take about 25 minutes or so. Am I missing something?
January 30th, 2010
12:08 pm
Hi Pavel,
What type of training would you suggest for water polo players (specifically goalies)? Same thing as the workout in this article?
Thanks
Mike
January 30th, 2010
6:13 pm
Hi Pavel-
Remarkable post! Amazing insights and advice. You’re very generous with your wisdom. Thanks for sharing for over a year.
My question concerns deadlift grip. Which is the “standard” – double overhand or a snatch grip (one over, one under)? I certainly cannot lift as much with double overhands compared to snatch. From Kutcher’s videos and others, it seems the snatch is standard and preferable, yes?
And, if snatch grip is the way to go, do you advise alternating them – either per set or per workout? I’m thinking about an imbalances that would result if you didn’t.
Power to you! Cheers!
Matt
January 31st, 2010
5:55 pm
[...] have been back on the gym bandwagon now for a while. Specifically I’ve been following this post from Tim Ferriss on the 5×5 method. I haven’t really lost a lot of weight, but I [...]
February 1st, 2010
8:24 am
I’ve just started doing the 3-day version of this work out and I can already see a difference. Best of all, I spend less time in the gym and I don’t feel tired the whole day. But I came across this article and I thought it might be of interest to you and the other readers on this blog.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060918142456.htm
Basically, a scientific study has shown that four to six 30 second “all out, full tilt” bursts of exercise, with about 4 minute recovery periods between each, can have the same effect as a 90 minute moderate work out. This is totally in keeping with this post and totally great news to the four-hour work week lifestyle!
February 2nd, 2010
9:59 am
Hi,
Five years ago I too torn my meniscus ( judo accident ), had an arthroscopic surgery to remove the torn portion ( around 20% ). A year later I resumed squatting. I’m currently at 450 squat ( like in Mark Ripptoe’s Starting Strength book ). I also jog sometimes for cardio ( not too much though ). Never had any pain. Am I putting my knee in too much danger danger by squatting this heavy? I would also like to squat more, I know I have it in me but I don’t wanna destroy my cartilage.
February 4th, 2010
7:20 am
Just completed my first three weeks of this program after following Tim’s HIT max-growth workout for one month.
Week 1: Struggled but completed SQ – 125, BP – 125, DL – 185
At end of week 3: Easily squatted 145, and deadlifted 205, bench coming slightly slower than the rest at 5, 5, 4, 4, 3 @ 145.
Weight used on light days is approaching my original heavy day lifts, and they feel like warm up sets.
Sure beats doing curls in front of the mirror. Deadlifting is a rush. It feels empowering to move a heavy weight. Thanks for the prescription guys.
Will keep the results coming.
February 8th, 2010
4:40 pm
@Pavel
Hey mang, thank you for writing the powerlifting article. I stopped doing p90x in my basement, and I am now squatting, bench pressing and deadlifting for the first time in my life. It’s fun! I joined a crossfit and they give me lots of personal attention, always they are telling me “keep your knees out, KNEES OUT.” Today is my 4th week and I set a new PR by squatting 185 pounds, 5 x 5.
…????? ???? 4 reps on that fourth set…
I wish there were more nutrition options on dragon door fitness. I will write a letter to John Ducane and ask him to stock “Bee Alive Royal Jelly” and “E3Live.” Those are my favorite!
February 9th, 2010
10:42 am
One important thing to note:
The deadlift and squat require excellent form, or you may injure yourself. Find someone who truly understands body mechanics, and get some instruction. Take your time getting the lifts right.
Depending on your build, you may want to do ’sumo’ style deadlifts instead of the standard lift. I’m 5′5″, 145lbs with short legs, and I cannot do the standard deadlift without injuring my lower back. But the sumos work great.
Squats are especially critical to do correctly.
February 10th, 2010
2:54 pm
From Heyward:
“Hey mang, thank you for writing the powerlifting article. I stopped doing p90x in my basement, and I am now squatting, bench pressing and deadlifting for the first time in my life. It’s fun! I joined a crossfit and they give me lots of personal attention, always they are telling me “keep your knees out, KNEES OUT.” Today is my 4th week and I set a new PR by squatting 185 pounds, 5 x 5.
…????? ???? 4 reps on that fourth set…
I wish there were more nutrition options on dragon door fitness. I will write a letter to John Ducane and ask him to stock “Bee Alive Royal Jelly” and “E3Live.” Those are my favorite!”
Heyward, well done, keep doing what you have been doing—DON’T ADD EXERCISES or change the program.
Sorry, I am not a friend of nutrition ;]
February 13th, 2010
4:46 am
Hey, I reading Faleev’s book that contains this info. But there are a few things wrong with Pavels instructions, namely that he has got the light days wrong, according to the book they should be 60% (not 80%) for only 4×4 not 5 sets.
As of yet I have not finished the book.
This simple error might (will) cause you to go stale quicker.
February 14th, 2010
4:32 pm
Hi Chris,
Thanks very much for the comment. Which book of Faleev’s are you referring to and where might I find it? Is it in Russian?
All the best,
Tim
February 15th, 2010
5:15 am
Yeah it is in russian, ive used online translation software to read it (although it does screw up the words a number of times), and convert to a document.
you can download the russian version for free here:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://faleev.com/about_muscles/muscles/m004.html&prev=hp&rurl=translate.google.com
this is one of Faleev’s sites (there is an english version but it doesnt include anything about training). Another one is:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffaleev.ru
which has the same download.
He also has a forum on the first site I posted, but the google translate , doesnt always translate the entire page.
I’m still fixing the inaccuracys caused by the translation software, also unsure, if I were to upload the english version, what the legal ramifications might be (could send it directly to you (Tim Ferris) so you could check it, if you want).
Plus I’m unable to fix some of it anyway…as dont follow the gist of some of the paragraphs.
But the numbers havent been altered in any way by the software.
hope I can be of help
-Chris
February 15th, 2010
5:20 am
Oh, yes I’ve just remembered, Faleev states that a begginner starting should for the 1st month or so ascribe to the following program before including deads:
Mon: Squats (Heavy)
Wed: Bench (Heavy)
Fri: Squats, Bench (Light)
with pullups being ok to include now, but to remove with addition of deads.
He states that this is best to allow the squats to prep the back for the more trying deadlifts.
personally think this is only good for rank begginers.
-Chris
February 15th, 2010
9:31 am
From Chris:
“Hey, I reading Faleev’s book that contains this info. But there are a few things wrong with Pavels instructions, namely that he has got the light days wrong, according to the book they should be 60% (not 80%) for only 4×4 not 5 sets.”
Chris, in his book ‘Shkola Svoego Tela’ (‘Your Body’s School’) (2004) on p. 60 Faleev recommends 5 sets of 4 reps with 80% of the weight used on the heavy days.
Perhaps you have read another book of his. It is not unusual for a coach to change the sets and the percentages without violating the principles. 4×4 does not surprise me as many Russian coaches apply the “60% Rule” to load planning. According to this experimentally calculated formula, the volume of the lowest load training unit (a workout, a microcycle/week, a mesocycle/month) should equal approximately 60% of the highest load unit, provided they are of the same length. If the heavy day’s volume is 25 reps (5×5), light day’s can go as low as 15 (e.g. 5×3).
But I doubt he would recommend 60% of the 5×5 weight. A 225-pound bencher would be looking at 115 pound light days, which is way too light even for technique training. I suspect that 60% referred to 1RM, not the 5×5 poundage.
February 15th, 2010
9:41 am
@whoever
What does it mean when you can’t lift the same weight you lifted last week? Squatted 185lbs, 5 x 5 last monday, and could barely do 175lbs 5 x 5 this monday. Not injured, not tired, ate the same thing i normally eat…hrm…the only exercise I’ve done outside lifting is walking a few miles a day.
February 15th, 2010
1:02 pm
Hi Pavel, yes it was a different book of his, I think its called “Strength Training Get rid of misconceptions” Published in 2006.
You’re probably correct about the 60% of the one rep max.
I found the book on this here:
http://faleev.com/main_power.html
Havent read the ‘Shkola Svoego Tela’ (‘Your Body’s School’), but thanks for the info.
N.B.
Link update: my previous post that says points to the download, is incorrect, please find below the correct link:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://faleev.com/main_power.html&prev=hp&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhiXAMAGdFEs6G1cgQfRcNddi7YRaA
February 15th, 2010
1:47 pm
Pavel:
I’ve just quickly glanced at the “School of Body” book, appears to be very similiar to the version I’m reading. But the “Strength training. Get rid of misconceptions.”
book was published in (2006), so the 60% of the heavy day was a update.
To quote the Chapter headline in “School of Body” (2004):
Russian:
“???????? ??????. “???????” ??????? ?????????? ???????? ?? ??????? 5 ???????? ?? 5 ???. “??????” ???????? ? ????? 80% ?? “???????” ?? ??????? 5 ???????? ?? 4 ????”
English:(As best as the online translation software can manage):
“Commandment Three. “Heavy” basic training done by rule 5 sets of 5 times. “Light” are done with a weight of 80% of “heavy” by rule 5 sets to 4 times ”
But for “Strength training. Get rid of misconceptions.” (2006):
pg. 65
Russian:
“??????? ??????. “???????” ??????? ?????????? ???????? ?? ??????? 5 ???????? ?? 5-8 ???. “??????” ???????? ? ????? 60% ?? “???????” ?? ??????? 4 ???????? ?? 4 ????.”
English (again as best as the translation software can do):
“The third principle. “Heavy” basic training done by rule 5 sets of 5-
8 times. “Light” are made with a weight of 60% of “heavy” to rule
4 of the Attempts to 4 times.”
Again I don’t entirely trust the translation software, so if Pavel or any other people able to read Russian can check the translation, and verify how close it is, I would be very greatful.
Direct download to A.V. Faleev’s updated book, below:
http://faleev.ru/Downloads/kniga3.rar
Thanks in advanced
-Chris
February 15th, 2010
2:11 pm
Sorry didn’t realise that the Russian alphabet would be unable to be posted here’s the Russian for the 2nd book using the english alphabet:
“Tyazhyeliye” bazoviye tryenurovki dyelautsya po praviloo 5 podhodov po 5-8 raz. “Lyegkiye” dyelautsya s vesom 60% ot “Tyazhyelih” po praviloo 4 podhodov po 4 paza.
This is as best as I could do, it is a straight letter-by-letter translation, but it might be just gibberish now…
Regardless, this can be found on page 65 of the book.
-Chris
February 15th, 2010
8:28 pm
From Chris:
“Tyazhyeliye” bazoviye tryenurovki dyelautsya po praviloo 5 podhodov po 5-8 raz. “Lyegkiye” dyelautsya s vesom 60% ot “Tyazhyelih” po praviloo 4 podhodov po 4 paza.”
Chris, there are no references to light day % at all on p. 65 of my 2004 edition.
February 15th, 2010
8:29 pm
From Heyward:
“What does it mean when you can’t lift the same weight you lifted last week? Squatted 185lbs, 5 x 5 last monday, and could barely do 175lbs 5 x 5 this monday. Not injured, not tired, ate the same thing i normally eat…hrm…the only exercise I’ve done outside lifting is walking a few miles a day.”
Heyward, it means you need to take a week off and start a new cycle.
February 16th, 2010
2:43 am
“From Pavel:
Chris, there are no references to light day % at all on p. 65 of my 2004 edition.”
————–
no, sorry I was quoting from the 2006 edition.
At the end he explains the rational for the light days. Basically if I’m reading it right he saying that you shouldn’t train the main muscle groups heavy more that every 7 days, due to the fact your still recovering.
So the light days need to be light enough to not break down anymore muscle fibers, but while allowing for enhanced restoration to take place, in other words, Active Recovery. But also to allow for, as you said to practice technique.
thanks for responding to these posts, as I’m sure youre very busy
- Chris B
February 21st, 2010
1:42 pm
I would like to know how do you do your warm up for the 5×5 ?
for BP,DL,SQ
I have to say I m lost here
nothing is said about warming up ?
do you suggest more exercises after the primary one ? (bp,dl,sq)
I read over and over but never see anything about warm up
do I go to the gym and start right away with 60 or 70 % of my weight ????
I m really interested to try but I need more explanation
and Pavel what is your opinion about MAX-OT work out ??
based on compound move as well with 3 min rest betewn every set
Max OT is very popular and I was wondering your opinion about it
sincerely
February 21st, 2010
2:28 pm
Hi Pavel,
Thanks for anwering our questions, I bought three of your books and some kettlebells because of this post about one year ago. I have mostly concentrated on kettlbells this year with much satisfaction and now I want to go back to barbell training so I can alternate it with kettlebells every 12 weeks like you suggested in an above post. I have used the 5×5 method for years, as I use to powerlift. My next goal is to gain mass and strength with presses and deadlifts. Your book ptp has a program I would like to do called the Bear and I noticed that you mentioned above that doing 1 day of DLs and 2 days of pressing a week is the logical thing to do. My question is, that if I want to do the Bear program, should I drop the weight for technique and active recovery on the second day of presses or should I use the same amount of weight or move it up like linear progression? Please clarify how that program is suppose to be done so that I can train correctly. I would like to know if there is a light pressing day or not, and how I should cycle the weight on this program. I am familiar with the cycling options you have in your book ptp so if you just tell me if using wave or step cycling would be best for this program or if there is another way specific to this program that would be great. thank you for your willingness to help. Your work is brilliant! Power to you!!!
February 22nd, 2010
1:10 pm
From Chris:
“no, sorry I was quoting from the 2006 edition.
At the end he explains the rational for the light days. Basically if I’m reading it right he saying that you shouldn’t train the main muscle groups heavy more that every 7 days, due to the fact your still recovering.
So the light days need to be light enough to not break down anymore muscle fibers, but while allowing for enhanced restoration to take place, in other words, Active Recovery. But also to allow for, as you said to practice technique.”
No problem, Chris, there are many ways to structure light days and some elite coaches like Marty Gallagher do without them altogether.
February 22nd, 2010
7:33 pm
“I would like to know how do you do your warm up for the 5×5 ?
for BP,DL,SQ
I have to say I m lost here
nothing is said about warming up ?
do you suggest more exercises after the primary one ? (bp,dl,sq)
I read over and over but never see anything about warm up
do I go to the gym and start right away with 60 or 70 % of my weight ????
I m really interested to try but I need more explanation ”
Never mind I find the answer after all lol
but plz answer the second one if you can :)
about the MAX OT Training
and Pavel what is your opinion about MAX-OT work out ??
based on compound move as well with 3 min rest betewn every set
Max OT is very popular and I was wondering your opinion about it
sincerely
February 28th, 2010
9:15 am
From Jerome:
“I would like to know how do you do your warm up for the 5×5 ?”
It is an individual choice. Generally a few low rep sets for grooving the skill are enough. For instance, if your 5×5 weight for the day is 225 you might do 135×5, 185×2, 205×1.
“do you suggest more exercises after the primary one ? (bp,dl,sq)”
Definitely not. That is the point of the program.
“Pavel what is your opinion about MAX-OT work out ??”
I don’t know what it is. Please clarify.
March 1st, 2010
6:10 am
Hi guys,
I used the program fairly strictly for 12 weeks and saw amazing results (see my above post).
However, I am now cycling with 4 fairly taxing workouts per week and I wondering how I should go about maintaining (realistically, slowing the rate at which I lose) the strength I developed on this program.
So I ask the readers, Tim, and Pavel for their insight. Would would suit my needs best? A couple days a week Pttp type program? EtK? Right now I am doing 1×5 DL and 1×5 SQ to “grease the groove” on my off-bike days, but I am finding it is leaving me a little depleted for my bike workouts (maybe I am lifting too heavy).
Thanks guys, I continue to learn much from this post.
Moses
PS: My cycling training program is an 80/20 type program, and off 4-6 hours a week of riding, I’m competing with people that do 2-4 times the volume!
March 1st, 2010
5:21 pm
thank you for the answer Pavel
the MAX OT training been popular by the AST SPORT SCIENCE year ago
it’s base on heavy training 3 set of 3-6 reps by exercises and no more then 2 muscles group a day for 4 times a week training
or one muscle group a day for 5 time a week of training
you have to take a full 3 minute rest between every set
the training is only base on compounded move ONLY
chest will be ( BP , Incline , and decline )
and back ( DL , pull down,rowing )
and etc etc for every muscle group
and your training doesn’t last more then a hour
there is the link for the web site
http://www.ast-ss.com/maxot.php
hope to hear from you again soon
and thank you again for the answer
very sincerely
Jerome
March 2nd, 2010
11:47 am
Jerome, it looks like a good plan. I would add an unloading week every four weeks. Instead of 3×6 do 3×3 with 80% of the 3×6 weight.
March 2nd, 2010
11:49 am
Doc Moses Bernard, DC, sorry, I did not understand the question. What seems to be the problem?
March 2nd, 2010
12:34 pm
One thing not mentioned about Max-OT is that they advocate going to failure on every work set. Max-OT is a body building workout rather than a powerlifting workout.
March 2nd, 2010
4:47 pm
well I m really interested by you Pavel I have to say lol
I did master in sport health science
you technique made a lot of sense
but I wondering your opinion about other technique
I m fan of heavy and short training
and so far the MAX OT was very interesting and very logic .
but very unknown in general public
they suggest that every 4-5 week you change your routine around.
like instead of starting by Bench Press then 4 week later you start by incline for example .
and every 8-10 week you suppose to take 1 full week rest
your training technique really interested me .
do you have any place for cardio ? how do you propose to do it ?
Max OT propose to wait 8 hours before doing any cardio and that the way I learn it as well…..to wait 8 hours after a strength training…
what your opinion about it ?
thank again for all your answer
hope to hear from you
sincerely
March 3rd, 2010
12:58 am
Hi Pavel,
Thanks for anwering our questions, I bought three of your books and some kettlebells because of this post about one year ago. I have mostly concentrated on kettlbells this year with much satisfaction and now I want to go back to barbell training so I can alternate it with kettlebells every 12 weeks like you suggested in an above post. I have used the 5×5 method for years, as I use to powerlift. My next goal is to gain mass and strength with presses and deadlifts. Your book ptp has a program I would like to do called the Bear and I noticed that you mentioned above that doing 1 day of DLs and 2 days of pressing a week is the logical thing to do. My question is, that if I want to do the Bear program, should I drop the weight for technique and active recovery on the second day of presses or should I use the same amount of weight or move it up like linear progression? Please clarify how that program is suppose to be done so that I can train correctly. I would like to know if there is a light pressing day or not, and how I should cycle the weight on this program. I am familiar with the cycling options you have in your book ptp so if you just tell me if using wave or step cycling would be best for this program or if there is another way specific to this program that would be great. thank you for your willingness to help. Your work is brilliant! Power to you!!!
March 3rd, 2010
4:15 am
Sorry for not beng clear.
I am wondering the best way to maintain (or slow the loss) of the strength I gained on the program while competing as a competitive road cyclist.
Should I be converting the strength I gained into strength endurance?
I am wanting to be in the gym no more than 2-3 times a week.
Thanks again group,
Moses
March 3rd, 2010
9:20 am
From Adam:
“One thing not mentioned about Max-OT is that they advocate going to failure on every work set. Max-OT is a body building workout rather than a powerlifting workout.”
Adam, that is easy enough to fix.
March 3rd, 2010
9:23 am
From Jerome:
“well I m really interested by you Pavel I have to say lol I did master in sport health science you technique made a lot of sense but I wondering your opinion about other technique I m fan of heavy and short training and so far the MAX OT was very interesting and very logic but very unknown in general public
“they suggest that every 4-5 week you change your routine around.
like instead of starting by Bench Press then 4 week later you start by incline for example and every 8-10 week you suppose to take 1 full week rest”
Jerome, it is one of many legit approaches.
“your training technique really interested me .do you have any place for cardio ? how do you propose to do it ?”
I prefer kettlebells. Please see http://www.enterthekettlebell.com.
“Max OT propose to wait 8 hours before doing any cardio and that the way I learn it as well…..to wait 8 hours after a strength training…what your opinion about it ?”
It is a good idea.
March 3rd, 2010
9:25 am
From Moses Bernard, DC:
“I am wondering the best way to maintain (or slow the loss) of the strength I gained on the program while competing as a competitive road cyclist. Should I be converting the strength I gained into strength endurance?”
Doc, there is no way you could successfully follow a powerlifting type training regimen and be a serious cyclist. One thing will have to go.
March 5th, 2010
6:08 am
Great article. Again this 80/20 principle seems to pop up everywhere ;)
I’ve come across articles on the 5×5 training principles before, and have decided right now to follow this program for the next 6 months. Why not :)
I’ll report back to this form with some updates on my progress.
All the best.
March 6th, 2010
2:22 pm
Hi Pavel,
I have been doing this workout for 3 months and I have had significant gains for the first time ever! I cut out almost all of my cardio and just focused on power. I am now training for greco roman wrestling and was curious about what type of workout I can do to maintain my power and also get my cardio up. Thanks for the help!
March 7th, 2010
10:11 pm
Hello Pavel, Fascinating info. Your knowledge is unsurpassed from any I’ve found. I have a son who plays football (American). Due to a variety of reasons he doesn’t participate in his schools off season weight program. We have been working out at home with kettlebells originally and more recently with the stronglifts 5×5 program. We also do some cardio as time permits. He is experiencing nice gains but it seems that this program you are recommending may be the best for him and for our situation.He is 5′9″ and 220 probably carrying 25lbs more than he needs.The coach looks for big numbers as far as lifting goes, but he needs explosive power for his lineman position and would also like to lose the belly without losing much weight.The 5×5 seems to be the answer for the strength and explosiveness, while kettlebells would burn fat. He currently lifts; sq 225 dl 275 and bp 185 1RM. What route would you recommend and what kind of weight would you expect him to be lifting by August? Thanks
March 8th, 2010
8:59 am
Pavel,
I am about to begin this program for the second time. I originally started the program during June 09′ and worked it for 11weeks. During this time i did not deload at any point and stopped when I did due to a minor pull in my right pectoral. Despite this I made huge gains particularly in my Squat and DL, ending numbers were, Squat 425(with belt), DL 515(with belt), Bench 270(no gear). I have since worked wendlers 5-3-1 program, but feel i have never been as strong, flexible and lean, as i was when doing this 5×5. I wanted to know how often you recomend backing down and deloading the weight, before bringing it back up again. I was thinking mabey every 4th or 5th week droping the weight to 60%-65% and doing Monday squat, Tuesday bench, Friday DL, then the next monday resume where i was only 10 lbs heavier. I’ve never competed, I dont do cardio all i care about is being stong and healthy. Thank You, for this program.
March 8th, 2010
12:10 pm
A few qualms and questions I have about this particular article:
First of all, what records and/or major meets have Faleev, or anybody that religiously follows this workout schedule, broken or won?
I’d also like to include the following quote from the article: “for Built magazine, which folded before publication.” So, prior to being posted here, he was planning on wiriting this for a particluar magazine which folded… That should tell you something as well.
While I do agree that the three main lifts: Squat, bench, dead, work a variety of muscles, doing those sole exercises isn’t a great way to improve in areas where you are weak in. For instance, when you are first pressing right of your chest, you are using entirely less of your triceps that coming to a lockout. Just doing regular bench all the time won’t improve your triceps much. That will leave them undeveloped once you are move up to higher weight, thus making it harder to lockout.
The same applies with Deadlift and Squats. Faleev states that in doing Squats, one uses their abdominals as well as legs. That is definitely true, no argument there. But if you just do squats all the time, and no exercises singling out your abs, when you find yourself doing a good 70+ lbs more than your previous you will also find that getting up from the bottom will be a little tougher than expected. If you aren’t being thrown over by the weight… that is.
Just my 2 cents.
March 8th, 2010
10:04 pm
Dear All,
I am an Indian researcher at a university in the States.
I really like your methods and I have been following the Faleev workout for 2 weeks now. I am 6 feet 2 inches in height and weigh 235 lbs, at age 26. I would like to lose approximately 35-40lbs of fat that I have and put on as much muscle as I can with the Faleev workout.
Now, I am from India, and like most Indians , am primarily a vegetarian; i.e I eat chicken approximately once a week. Thus, most of my proteins comes from lentils (Dals of various varieties) ,whey protein, edamame and “chana” seeds.
These days I do this:
1. Take a banana and some milk; workout for 40 minutes before school in the morning, and drink 30 gms of protein, 1-2 slices of bread without butter, 2-3 whole fruits (apples, pears).
2. Lunch is a half a cup of rice, a bowl of lentils, one serving vegetables, a big salad.
3. I workout according to Faleevs plan, doing the 5 day plan of Monday-SQ, Tuesday-BP, etc. etc.
In this, I finish my 5*5 sets. Usually I have enough energy to go on for another 5-6 sets, so I do those also to get “tired” and feel worked out. I throw in some Sun Salutations for flexibility and some back exercises on a bench.
Dinner is 30 more gm of whey protein, Lentils (dal), 1-2 helpings of veggies, and one Naan / tortilla. I invariably take dessert; dark chocolate, a fruit, some sweetened fruit flavoured yoghurt ( Lala strawberry tastes really good!)
Questions:
a. As a person who is new to lifting, and with disproportionately long legs, should I reduce the range of motion of the squats and do heavy weights, or should I emphasize the full range of motion on squats and do lighter weight. I squat 225 at reduced range.
b. I am cutting out the desserts from my diet. Would you recommend that I remove the breads, Naan, and rice also and increase the salads, and raw veggies like cucumbers and carrots? Will I feel weak etc? Keep in mind that I have hypothyroidism ( I take synthyroid), and I also take an antidepressant like Lexapro (10mg) everyday.
March 8th, 2010
10:29 pm
From Jon C
“I have been doing this workout for 3 months and I have had significant gains for the first time ever! I cut out almost all of my cardio and just focused on power. I am now training for greco roman wrestling and was curious about what type of workout I can do to maintain my power and also get my cardio up. Thanks for the help!”
Jon, great to hear about your progress! Unfortunately this program is not compatible with wrestling. You need a lower volume, less demanding, plan, e.g. 3×3 or 5, 3, 2.
March 8th, 2010
10:33 pm
From lance:
“Hello Pavel, Fascinating info. Your knowledge is unsurpassed from any I’ve found. I have a son who plays football (American). Due to a variety of reasons he doesn’t participate in his schools off season weight program. We have been working out at home with kettlebells originally and more recently with the stronglifts 5×5 program. We also do some cardio as time permits. He is experiencing nice gains but it seems that this program you are recommending may be the best for him and for our situation.He is 5?9? and 220 probably carrying 25lbs more than he needs.The coach looks for big numbers as far as lifting goes, but he needs explosive power for his lineman position and would also like to lose the belly without losing much weight.The 5×5 seems to be the answer for the strength and explosiveness, while kettlebells would burn fat. He currently lifts; sq 225 dl 275 and bp 185 1RM. What route would you recommend and what kind of weight would you expect him to be lifting by August? Thanks”
Lance, thank you for your kind words! I would alternate periods of strength maintenance (e.g. 5, 3, 2 with the 5×5 weight) and intense kettlebell trainining for fat loss and conditioning (the ‘Enter the Kettlebell!’ Program Minimum) and periods of strength emphasis (5×5 as in the article) and low volume kettlebell work. Don’t bother with power cleans and such until you bring the kid’s squat and deadlift up to at least 400.
March 8th, 2010
10:41 pm
From Ian:
“I am about to begin this program for the second time. I originally started the program during June 09? and worked it for 11weeks. During this time i did not deload at any point and stopped when I did due to a minor pull in my right pectoral. Despite this I made huge gains particularly in my Squat and DL, ending numbers were, Squat 425(with belt), DL 515(with belt), Bench 270(no gear). I have since worked wendlers 5-3-1 program, but feel i have never been as strong, flexible and lean, as i was when doing this 5×5. I wanted to know how often you recomend backing down and deloading the weight, before bringing it back up again. I was thinking mabey every 4th or 5th week droping the weight to 60%-65% and doing Monday squat, Tuesday bench, Friday DL, then the next monday resume where i was only 10 lbs heavier. I’ve never competed, I dont do cardio all i care about is being stong and healthy. Thank You, for this program.”
Ian, impressive numbers! What is your bodyweight, before and after? What were you starting numbers in the powerlifts?
While you must deload, there are many different ways of doing it. Cutting the intensity and volume every 4th or 5th week is one legit approach. Cycling (starting light, then building up, peaking, and starting over) is another. Dan Austin’s 1992 world DL record still stands and so do Coan’s DL records. They were achieved with basic linear cycling. This method is no longer fashionable, which is unfortunate, giving its proven effectiveness. Check out Marty Gallagher’s “The Purposeful Primitive” (http://www.dragondoor.com/b37.html).
March 8th, 2010
10:47 pm
To Cody Kellum:
Cody, before I respond to your comments, could you do me a favor and tell me what is your lifting background?
Thank you.
March 9th, 2010
11:15 am
Pavel,
Thank you for your response. My body weight began around 175lbs. and ended around 180-185lbs. My natural body weight is about 185, but i was lighter due to training from a wrestling tournament. My privious PR’s were squat 355 lbs, DL 420 lbs, and Bench 235 lbs. I can write a little more about my experience with this if the other readers would like/find helpful
March 9th, 2010
1:05 pm
Ian, very impressive! Yes, please write an article about your experience. If Tim finds it inappropriate for his blog please submit it to http://www.DragonDoor.com’s editor David Whitley, irontamerdave@hotmail.com. Thank you.
March 9th, 2010
7:06 pm
I think it’s totally appropriate for this blog! Ian, feel free to post in the comments here or share with me via my assistant at amy-at-fourhourworkweek(dot)com
March 9th, 2010
2:48 pm
Pavel, thank you for the reply. What would you recommend for low volume kettlebell and how often to alternate between workouts? Every two weeks, every month? Thanks again.
March 9th, 2010
6:42 pm
Lance, try every three weeks. “Low volume” is relative to what is “high volume” is. Perhaps 1/2. Experiment.
March 12th, 2010
2:13 pm
Hello Pavel,
I purchased the ETK book and dvd when they came out and it is a fun program.
I really admire the simplicity of ETK and the routine you present here. I really appreciate that you have taken time to answer questions and I hope you will answer a few more.
First, I have a broad chest and I do not wish to develop it. I have replaced bench presses with overhead presses. As you say, the gains are slower but they are still gains. Do you have any additional comments about this specific change to the program?
Second, this program reminds me of Dan Johns “Rapid Ascent Program” and I wonder how you might apply this 1 lift a day to olympic lifts or if that is just ridiculous. I’d love to get some overhead squats and powercleans into a similarly stripped down routine.
Finally, I have never really grasped how to effectively alternate programs. So for example, in your response to Lance you proposed periods of strength maintenance, ETK, and strength emphasis. When you return to one of these periods, do you simply start where you left off with your numbers?
I thought I underestood the principal of cycling, but only as applied to one routine. So for example do the 80/20 routine for 4 weeks, adding 10 pounds every week. Then start over with 10 more pounds than your original starting poundage.
Now, if after that 4th week I instead start 4 weeks of ETK program minimum, where do my numbers start when I return to barbell work?
Thanks so much for your time. I see you have a new book out (PTTP Pro) and I look forward to reading it.
Leave a Comment or a Question
Comment Rules: Remember what Fonzie was like? Cool. That's how we're gonna be -- cool. Critical is fine, but if you're rude, we'll delete your stuff. Please do not put your URL in the comment text and please use your PERSONAL name or initials and not your business name, as the latter comes off like spam. Have fun and thanks for adding to the conversation! (Thanks to Brian Oberkirch for the inspiration)