Why Language Classes Don’t Work: How to Cut Classes and Double Your Learning Rate (Plus: Madrid Update) 94 Comments
Coffee shops vs. classrooms - who wins? (Photo: eye2eye)
This is one of several articles planned as supplements to the original “How to Learn (But Not Master) Any Language in 1 Hour.” This piece focuses on acquisition of new material; for reactivating “forgotten” languages and vocab, I recommend also reading “How to Resurrect Your High School Spanish… or Any Language.”
Let us begin…
From the academic environments of Princeton University (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Italian) and the Middlebury Language Schools (Japanese), to the disappointing results observed as a curriculum designer at Berlitz International (Japanese, English), I have sought for more than 10 years to answer the question to a simple question: why do most language classes simply not work?
After testing the waters with more than 20 languages and achieving conversational and written fluency in 6, I have identified several cardinal sins that, when fixed, can easily cut the time to fluency by 50-80%…
1. Teachers are viewed as saviors when materials are actually the determining factor.
Teachers are merely conduits for the material and sequencing.
By analogy, it is better to have a decent cook with excellent easy-to-follow recipe than a great cook with terrible recipe. It is the material that will restrict or elevate the teacher, and a good teacher forced to follow bad material will hinder, not hasten, learning progress. I don’t sit in on classes or otherwise consider a school until I’ve reviewed both hand-out materials and text books.
Judge materials before you judge teachers, and no matter what, do not begin with classes or texts that solely use the target language (e.g., Spanish textbooks in Spanish). This approach reflects a school’s laziness and willingness to hire monolingual teachers, not the result of their search for the ideal method.
2. Classes move as slowly as the slowest student.
Seek a school with daily homework assignments that eliminate—effectively fire—students from the class who don’t perform.
The school should have a strict curriculum that doesn’t bend for a minority of the class who can’t cope. Downgrading students is only possible in larger schools with at least five proficiency levels for separate classes—beginner, intermediate, and advanced is woefully inadequate. Students can only be moved if the jumps between classes are relatively small and there are a sufficient number of students at each level for the school to justify paying separate teachers.
At the Hartnackschule in Berlin, Germany, where I studied for 10 weeks after evaluating a dozen schools, there are at least 20 different skill levels.
3. Conversation can be learned but not taught.
Somewhat like riding a bike, though unfortunately not as permanent, language fluency is more dependent on practicing the right things than learning the right things. The rules (grammar) can be learned through materials and classes, but the necessary tools (vocabulary and idiomatic usage) will come from independent study and practice in a native environment.
I achieved fluency in German in 10 weeks using a combination of grammatical practice at the Hartnackschule (four hours daily for the first month, two hours daily for the second) and daily two-person language exchanges with students of English.
Grammar can be learned with writing exercises in a class of 20, whereas “conversation” cannot be learned in anything but a realistic one-on-one environment where your brain is forced to adapt to normal speed and adopt coping mechanisms such as delaying tactics (“in other words,” “let me think for a second,” etc.).
Separate grammar from conversation practice. I recommend choosing one school for grammar and several native books or comics to identify sticking points, which are then discussed in one-one-one language exchanges, where your partner provides examples of usage and does not explain rules.
Getting into trouble in Greek and Chinese in Athens with the help of Stefanos Kofopoulos, ouzo, and wine.
4. Teachers are often prescriptive instead of descriptive.
Many teachers take it upon themselves to be arbiters of taste and linguistic conservationists, refusing to explain slang and insisting on correct but essentially unused grammatical constructions (e.g., “with whom were you speaking?” versus “who were you speaking to?”).
Progress will be faster when you find a teacher who describes rather than prescribes usage. They should be able and willing to explain, for example, how Konjunktiv I is generally used in place of Konjunktiv II in German, even though it is technically incorrect. They should also be able to save you time by explaining what to practice based on actual frequency of use, not inclusion in a grammar text. For example, the simple past is almost always used in place of the perfect tense in Argentina, but some teachers still spend equal time on both.
To avoid those who act as defenders of language purity, it is often easier to target 20-30-year old teachers and those who are good at teaching inductively (providing examples to explain principles). Ask them to explain a few common colloquial grammatical constructions before signing up.
In conclusion—the learner is the problem (what?)
The above sins certainly inhibit the speed of learning, but the principal problem is the learner his or herself, who—more often than not—uses classes as a substitute for, and not supplement to, real ego-crushing interaction.
Classes are easily used to infinitely postpone making the thousands of mistakes necessary to achieve fluency. In boxing, they say “everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.” Well, in language learning, we could just as easily say that “everyone has the perfect conversation in mind until they speak to a real native.”
Don’t waste time on more than learning more than a handful of conjugations for primarily first-person singular (I) and second-person singular (you) in the past, present, and future tenses, along with common phrases that illustrate them. Throw in a few auxilaries (to want to V, to need to V, to like to V, etc.) and jump on a plane before learning any more of what you’ll just need to relearn anyway. Even after you land, you do not need more than two months of classes in-country, and remember that, like training wheels, the goal is get off of them as quickly as possible.
Don’t go to classes because you have no social network outside of class, or because you want the illusion of progress with a coddling teacher who understands your Tarzan attempts at her language. If you are taking classes because they are enjoyable, fine, but understand that you are better off spending time elsewhere.
Make it your goal to screw up as often as possible in uncontrolled environments. Explicitly ask friends to correct you and reward them with thanks and praise when they catch you spouting nonsense, particularly the small understandable mistakes. I was able to pass the Certificado de Espanol Avanzado, the most diffucult Spanish certification test in South America, in eight weeks, which is said to require near-native fluency and years of immersion. How? By following the above fixes and making more mistakes in eight weeks than most make in eight years.
“An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field,” or so said Physicist Niels Bohr. Luckily, you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to use his advice. Choose schools carefully and then, once they’ve served their purpose, abandon them.
The real world is where mistakes are made, weaknesses are found, and fluency is achieved.
###
Some random videos:
A promo for bookstores in Spain. It’s not easy to suppress my Argentine accent.
For German Amazon.com - some of you have seen this before.
###
Odds and Ends: Update on Madrid party location this Thursday!
For all you readers and friends in Europe, come have a glass or bottle with me! The space will be on a first come first served basis, so register early. So far, there are 132 people coming — it’s going to rock.
Play hard with us 6-9pm on Thurs., Sept. 25th in Madrid. Location:
RESTAURANTE LATERAL
Centro Comercial Arturo Soria Plaza
Calle Arturo Soria 126
28043 Madrid, Spain
Tel. 91 300 36 01
Espero que nos veamos pronto!
Follow Tim in real-time on Twitter
Posted on September 22nd, 2008
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94 Responses to “Why Language Classes Don’t Work: How to Cut Classes and Double Your Learning Rate (Plus: Madrid Update)”
5:25 pm
@Tim: “…making the thousands of mistakes necessary to achieve fluency.”
This is certainly transferable to many learning pursuits. This is why ‘on the job training’ or ‘hand on experience’ is often times more effective than any kind of formal education.
BTW, did you write this before BWE or did you crank this one out on the flight home? :-)
5:41 pm
Hey Tim,
From your recent Tweet Kim and I picked up the Pimsleur language series to prepare for our next mini retirement to Buenos Aires. It’s been incredible. Fun and easy! We’ll combine those lessons along with your instruction here and be in great shape for our next trip.
Pure Vida,
Rob
6:04 pm
Hey Tim,
Just looking at your Twitter and thought this was relevant to the discussion perhaps, but there is not much explanation. Care to elaborate or will there be a post on it?
Here it is:
“Once again comparing www-supermemo-com with Pimsleur and Michel Thomas for foreign language vocab acquisition…”
Also, I had a look at supermemo-com, is this a good website to learn about “learning”?
Thanks.
6:34 pm
Wow, hardcore stuff. One of the few things I have trouble learning, but really want to, has been foreign languages. I’ve been to plenty of countries, even lived in Korea for a year, and still didn’t learn more than a few pleasantries. Mainly, I guess, because I didn’t know how to go about learning effectively. I’m loving your language posts, keep em up!
6:38 pm
Tim,
That is so darn impressive… all the languages you speak. I totally salute you, and am inspired to start learning a new language. Keep the good mojo flowing, and looking forward to catching up with you again.
- Mike Michalowicz
6:54 pm
Tim,
I’ve always wanted to learn Spanish, but I’ve got a hearing impairment. Could you do a post about getting fluent with reading/writing as opposed to speaking?
Gracias!
Burton
7:03 pm
You sound just like an Argentine! Although sometimes native Spanish and Argentine spanish can sound very similar. Even some Peruvian Spanish can be confused with Argentine Spanish with the exception of the vos and “LL”.
7:25 pm
A ver Tim cuándo te ponés las pilas y sacás el libro en Castellano para Argentina!!?
You know, probably there are lots of people willing to read your book here, but they don’t understand a word of english!
Un abrazo y check my blog on productivity, time managment and learning techniques for students!
Yes, I’m trying to become the argentine you eventually! LOL :-D
always thankfully,
Ar
7:54 pm
Hey Tim,
Great post! I love to learn languages and am going to be spending 6-9 months in France in a few months. After my trip I am planning on staying in Spain for several months. I don’t know the language at all and am wondering what you think of Rosetta Stone software stuff?
7:58 pm
“Ego-crushing interaction…” Hahaha. How true. I’m learning my 6th and 7th languages this semester (Arabic and Gaeilge), and will add your tricks to my bag. Much thanks!
8:00 pm
Tim (or any other linguistic people following this thread…)
My friend from Mexico tells me that in general I have a very good accent in Spanish, but I have a MAJOR problem speaking fluently in Espanol, Italiano, or any language that requires rolling the R–I cannot do it at all. It is very frustrating! Do you happen to know what are the most common reasons for not being able to do this, how can I learn it, do I need to see a speech therapist…any ideas?
8:31 pm
As I’ve discovered over the years of losing my ability to have a coherent conversation in Spanish, the language I learned parallel to English, your language is like a muscle and must be exercised well. Classroom language is really weak. I could learn Chinese tomorrow in class, but without someone to exercise it with, it disappears quickly.
8:53 pm
“no matter what, do not begin with classes or texts that solely use the target language”
I prefer to not have textbooks that use my native language, except of course, for the translation dictionaries, etc. I feel the constant switching back and forth between the languages trips me up more than helps me when starting out with a new language, especially when starting out.
Also, if learning languages quickly is your goal, I would recommend not trying to learn them in regions that are known for thick accents or use of sentence structures / verb tenses not widely used outside of their borders. That is, if you have the option to pick where to study.
9:10 pm
Tim - really, really great article.
My main background is theatre 35+ yrs. After Uni at age 40 I taught ESL for a few years. I got into it by teaching Thai women and a few guys how to swear at a warehouse I worked in prior to Uni. After they did (laughingly), workplace tensions dropped away. Because of my theatre background I was an unusual teacher, a clown in a suit. Students were taught by a native speaker who couldn’t spell and didn’t know grammar. I took students into dept stores hunting and trapping native speakers and going to as many counters as possible asking for information and advice. I had two exercises that were done daily: mimicking me loudly as a I talked about my life and silently for the rest of the class, using their mouth muscules; magic pen writing - to write continously for 10 mins in English. All my work (thanks to the theatre practice and theories of the amazing Keith Johnston) were based in modelling and the creation of an environment for safe “mistakes” to be normal, everyday occurances. Most of my colleagues (ex librarians and Lit types) thought I was weird and couldn’t figure out why my students learned faster than theirs.
An idea Tim: Translate this inspiringly excellent article into the other major languages of our wonderful world and make the party, this adventure, life, bigger.
whoohoo!
9:52 pm
I’ve been trying to learn German on my own for the last two years. I’ve learned tons more than I ever learned in school, but I’m at the point now where I actually need to talk to people in German if I am ever going to get any better. I spent a month and a half in Germany last summer and I learned a lot, but now that I’m back in the States my progress has slowed. So… I’m making the move and will be spending 5 months in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland this winter. I’m taking my work with my and living “The 4-Hour Work Week.” My goal is to return from the trip and be fluent (or nearly fluent) in German (and have my business making more money than ever). Thanks for the tips Tim! Keep up the good work!
10:13 pm
Yeah!!!!!! I have been waiting for this for over a year. Thanks Tim. . .can’t wait to see the rest! Cheers, Doc
10:50 pm
Excellent pronounciation in your Chinese, Tim!
My wife is chinese and I’m Filipino-American.
I feel like I’m starting to turn the corner in my ZhongWen. The pivotal paradigm shift is really transplanting your thoughts.
What helps me is… before I give up and say something in English.. if the phrase doesn’t immediately come to me in Chinese… I think hard about how to re-arrange my thoughts to see if I can express them in a different way that *is* easy to express in Chinese. It’s these baby steps that really add confidence that I think makes a difference. Even if using simple sentences, it’s a tremedous feeling to 100% form your thoughts in a different language and be able to communicate to a native speaker.
10:52 pm
Yes, would love to see what you think of the Rosetta Stone buzz…
12:04 am
Hi Tim, yo soy español y vivo en Turin, Italia. ?Para cuando te dejas caer por aquì? Con un amigo italiano estamos siguiendo tus teorìas en la realizaciòn de varios proyectos, entre ellos una microcervecerìa artesana en Turìn, que serìa un sitio ideal para una de tus fiestas-evento.
Saludos
5:13 am
I agree. When learning my second language, every six months I would visit the corresponding country. Two actions would always result from these excursions.
(1) My language skills increased dramatically.
(2) Women dig the American accent.
Hey Tim, have you checked out pageonce.com? I stumbled onto it the other day.
Cheers.
6:05 am
This goes a long way to explain why I took French in school for years and didn’t learn merde.
7:05 am
One of the frustrations of learning a language is defining an adequate outcome. It seems to me that the most basic level of literacy (having a 1-5,000 word vocabulary, a knowledge of the simple tenses and being familiar with the irregular verbs or declensions up to the first 1,000 words in frequency order) might allow you to read a popular newspaper of flirt with a waitress but is very far from being fluent. A look at the kind of plodding unidiomatic English used on Simple English Wikipedia suggest to me that fluency is a harder achievement than you’re representing, Tim. Even a native speaker with an elementary education would be able to pick up on idioms, cliches and quotations that would take years of study for a second language learners. Such things are not readily hackable.
7:06 am
Thanks for this post. As a language teacher, I think I have more faith in teachers than you, but most things (especially the attitude to mistakes) I agree with.
The problem, from the teacher’s point of view, is: how do you make every mistake an opportunity to learn - and at the same time avoid treating screw-ups like the worst thing that can happen? I would love to have students like Tim any day, because they look forward to screwing up (that’s where the learning is). But try explaining that to teenagers and Chinese (taught both).
How’s your Polish, Tim Ferris? Care to learn any?
7:22 am
[...] hoy Tim Ferries cita esta frase de Niels Bohr: Un experto es una persona que ha cometido todos los errores que pueden cometerse en un campo muy [...]
7:35 am
Tim, even your Greek is pretty good. I am jealous of your Chinese accent though. I went to two classes for Chinese and it is hard to not forget it when you do not practice it….
8:01 am
Day after tomorrow? I thought it was going to be in October.
8:10 am
Do you have to wear that hat to speak German?:-)
I really enjoyed this blog as I intend to go back and regain my meager 2nd language level so that I will be able to help my son learn Man. Chinese. I remember alot of the Vocab…But
it is amazing the grammer you lose when not in use….
Thank you for your book…looking forward to the next installment.
Michael
10:57 am
I really enjoyed this article and the other posts you have about language. My ability to read and comprehend French is good, but as I learned in France, my conversational skills are those of a slow five year-old. Ego-crushing indeed. But as you point out, if one is willing to risk embarassment and accept correction, one will progress in conversational ability. I tried learning Swedish with tapes, but ended up confused. I’m going to try again, this time keeping your posts in mind. BTW, my 11 year old son wants to learn French, German and Swedish–I’d love to use these posts to help him out.
11:28 am
This may sound odd, but while ramping up my spanish during conversation immersion I would notice that my head actually felt warm with all the buzz of trying to form sentences and express thoughts.
And for about 45 minutes afterwards I would be in a language limbo, not quite rooted in English or Spanish… I would want to respond to english speakers in spanish and vice versa. I suppose it was due to all those new neural pathways being formed. Anyone else get this?
11:51 am
I’ve spent the last couple of years in Spain and China, though my work doesn’t require these languages.
I’ve recently been taking an intensive class in Spanish and though the teacher is great, I simply don’t enjoy spending time sitting in silence, when I know I would be learning so much more just chatting and making the mistakes that we make when acquiring any language. I know this from five years spent sitting in Russian classes when I was a younger!
I wrote up some of my thoughts, especially comparing the classroom experience to that of Michel Thomas (great for Spanish) and Pimsleur (great for Chinese). Of course the way I’ve improved both of these languages is through talking as much as possible. In China I would advise taking taxis wherever possible and making as much of a fool of yourself as you can!
The link is in the website field.
Enjoying the blog a lot!
12:08 pm
Hi, Tim.
Thanks for posting this article.
A great cook with a bad recipe? That sounds like my high school German classes. We were blessed with a native speaker, but his knowledge was neutralized by those ridiculously misguided ALM textbooks and “space age” language laboratories. It was like our teacher gave up on trying to teach.
And you advise avoiding classes where the slow students retard progress? As if ALM was not bad enough, most of my classmates seemed to be in a labor slowdown, just short of a labor strike. To start with, they had no idea of common words shared by English and German, such as “Blitz”. Our instructor would go into rants, “Have you not heard of Blitzkrieg? What do they teach you in history class? Do you not watch the Hollywood war movies with your hearing switched on? Why did your Santa Claus name his reindeer blitzen?” LOL
I upset a lot of people with this opinion, but I must say that foreign language education in the U.S. is at a close to 95% failure rate, because most U.S. citizens do not know how to effectively speak their native language.
And Tim, how apropos that you mention learning the Konjunktiv in German, known as subjunctive in American English. That’s a tough one, for Americans.
In college, a Ph.D. linguistics professor told me that I only imagined that English was one of the easiest languages to learn, as it was my native language, learned effortlessly. (ha!) I gave the counter-example of the subjunctive. Easy enough in American English, as we use the biggest word in English, “IF”, along with whatever tense seems to fit. (However, in German, as well as most other languages, there is a separate set of irregular verb conjugations that must be used, if one is to avoid sounding like a comedy act, namely, the fool who utters nonsense by making word for word translations.)
The linguistics Ph.D. listened, quietly, then asked, “What is the subjunctive?”
Rant over. LOL
If you wondering about the subjunctive mood, see the following links. It seems, as I have suspected for many years, that the separate conjugations of the subjunctive are disappearing from American English, according to Mr. and Ms. Language Expert.
It’s definitely fading from plain American English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjunctive#Demise_of_the_subjunctive
But it’s still used explicitly in German.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjunctive#The_subjunctive_in_German
Our president has got everyone confused, especially ESL students, who need a teacher who can distinguish tense from mood…
http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic20035.html
… and the prez confuses himself…
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=is%20our%20children%20learning
Meanwhile, great artists muddle us up, ever worse, with updates that purge the subjunctive from old-fashioned lyrics. Who’s next to get a corrected rewrite? Shakespeare?
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001162.html
Casey
2:43 pm
My high school German teacher had an interesting thought on languages: When you can dream in a language, you are fluent in that language. Makes sense to me, but three semesters of public school language classes (ie daycare for teens) left me a bit short of that level of comprehension. I’d like to know what others use for a measure of fluency.
5:45 pm
Nice ideas. I almost spend $600 on a german speaking program but have opted to have some informal teaching when I get to Germany in Oct.
Thanks
Jose
5:49 pm
I think you made a lot of good points in this article, particularly that in order to achieve true fluency one must immerse him or herself by speaking regularly with other speakers of the language. As a pre-service language educator, however, I was quite taken aback by your post title and the content in your post that supports it. I think it is a hasty generalization to say that language classes don’t work. I achieved fluency in French in high school through a combination of language classes, studying independently, listening to French music and movies, and communicating in French on the internet and in person. The courses themselves, though, were the backbone that the rest of my skills were built on. I would argue that language classes work very well when the teacher is able to effectively able to accommodate all learning styles, encourage using the target language as often as possible, and, as you said, when the student is willing to put forth the effort and find ways to communicate and immerse him/herself outside of class to keep practicing. From what I’ve read of your blog, I understand that you are no stranger to foreign languages, and I believe that there are many effective ways to learn one. That said, this was a very interesting post and I enjoyed learning about a unique opinion on this topic! I hope you (and other readers) will take my defense of foreign language classes into consideration!
7:44 pm
That was epic where he burst out with the Chinese. Amazing. It’s all greek to him. Wait he knows Greek. It’s all Chinese to him then. Wait no..
You’re well on your way to becoming a legend, very well done. Now lets some national coverage will you?
7:52 pm
Hi Tim - I am interested in the concept of phenomes, and how there is a window during a child’s infancy in which the phenomes are learned (somewhere around 3-6 months or so if I remember correctly) which make or break whether a person can pronounce them later. Forgive me, I need to cite a reference, but the example I am remembering is that most Asian languages have about 80 phenomes while English has over 200? Which is why Asians struggle with English pronunciation.
Also, we have a message board member who is very interested in the “1,000 foreign words/week” as mentioned in 4HWW, and so am I :)
Great post!
Cheers!
~Marcie
8:27 pm
Tim,
As a member of military special operations, I frequently found myself in new countries trying to interact with people in their own language.
Something that we learned for the purpose of combat-related training carried over quite well to learning new languages: Real-time recall of a skill is based heavily on the exact circumstances under which that skill was learned.
For example, many police academies used to train their officers to catch their empty brass in their hands and then place it in their pockets before reloading. The purpose of this was to save from the hassle of picking brass off the ground afterward. It was never expected that officers would do this in a shootout, but that is exactly what happened. In multiple cases, police officers were found dead with handfuls of empty brass following a firefight.
The verbal skills in a real-time interaction, like the physical skills in a firefight, have little to do with conscious deliberation. It’s more a matter of rapid recall.
Recall is based not only on the environment in which a skill is learned, but also the state of mind of the learner at the time. West Point Professor and former Army Ranger Dave Grossman covers this in his book ‘On Combat’. A skill that can be recalled at a low level of arousal may not be recalled at a higher level. A heart rate of 150 bpm was a common cut-off point. An example of this would be panicked accident victims who suddenly can’t remember how to dial 911.
This is why military SOF teams train complex skills under states of high stress. It’s the only way those skills can be dependably recalled when that same degree of stress is attained in a real-world operation.
As you just pointed out in your post, this same thing applies to language training. No amount of classroom time can really simulate what it feels like to be on your own and dynamically interacting with someone in a foreign country with only your newly learned language skills to depend on. It’s a completely different environment, and having memorized a bunch of complex grammatical rules will be of little use.
I recently did a volunteer trip to Nepal. Included in the trip was a few days of language training, which involved sitting in a classroom and memorizing first-grade level grammatical rules and obscurities like the five or six different ways to say the word “I”. After a morning of this I excused myself and got in a cab with a notebook and pen with a list of common words and phrases like ‘yes, no, please, thank-you, 1-10,’ etc. and then wandered around Kathmandu attempting to use the words as much as possible in real-time interactions with people. I screwed it up constantly, but was always enthusiastically corrected, and soon had a decent vocabulary that I could recall reflexively.
The end result was that I was the only person out of a group of about a dozen people capable of interacting with people in the Nepali language. Even five weeks later the volunteers who sat in a classroom memorizing syntax were unable-and too uncomfortable-to use any of the language in real-life interactions.
-Craig
11:10 pm
Rosetta Stone is terrible. I have had a lot of success with learning on my own with Pimsleur, whose method exploits brain research on frequency and repetition and their effect on memory.
Thanks for the trenches reporting on language learning. More, more!
1:55 am
Hi all!
Greeting from Madrid, where they take their ham seriously. Yummm…
Thanks for the great comments! Seriously, I LOVED some of your questions and additions.
I highly suggest everyone read the comments and — if I could highlight one of several — Craigs comment on combat-related training for police officers and language learning. Excellent comparison.
As for Rosetta Stone, I think its brilliantly marketed and terribly ineffective if compared to other available methods that don´t claim to teach you to ¨think¨in a language instead of just speak in that language (I think this is marketer-speak and a ridiculous claim). Just try and ¨think¨ in math before you understand how to write it — good luck. Michel Thomas and Pimlsleur (though I find the latter slow at times) get my vote every time.
More soon ;)
Un abrazo gordo,
Tim
4:36 am
Hey Tim
Thanks again for a great post. I couldn’t agree more about making mistakes. They are _the_ key to learning fast. I think of my adventures in the investment world and how I’ve made every stupid mistake I can think of. That said, I’m happy to report that I’ve learned more income creating strategies than I ever thought possible.
Too bad I missed the free tickets to your Europe Tour in Spain. Catch you some other time. I got to thank you for all the ideas I’ve gotten from your book. Precious, that’s all I can say. Keep it up, man!
Jaakko, Vagabond Investor
10:03 am
Hi Tim!
The truth is that learning the language in school is highly inefficient. I know it from my own example
I’ve been learning English since I remember (my native tongue is Polish) and this summer I went for 4 weeks to France without no previous knowledge of French. Of course I bought a dictionary and forgot to take it with me…
I’m not a master after that time but I’m able to communicate, simply by talking with the people. It’s like being a 4-year old again and all the time asking “What’s this?” or “How to say in French…?”. After 1 week I could do the basic, after 2 weeks it was ok to chat, the third week was the breakthrough and I started forgetting all other languages which was - in a way - sth great.
If I am to learn a language, I have to know what for. You can’t do this in school, but in a real conversation. That’s the way it works for me
11:38 am
Curious — Is anyone using SecondLife, or other virtual environments for non-native language interaction?
1:23 pm
Hey Tim,
Awesome post. I’m trying to learn Chinese (Mandarin). What does the structure of your English exchange sessions look like? Just conversation?
1:25 pm
Hola Tim,
Mi nombre es Alejandro y soy de México pero actualmente estoy viviendo en Madrid por lo que tenia la gran oportunidad de ir a conocerte, sin embargo no pude ya que la actualización del lugar la mandaste por tu Feed, el cual se coloca automáticamente en mi correo en una carpeta separada, y no por el E-Ticket que se suponia nos hiba a llegar, debido a esto, no había tenido tiempo de leer tu post (el cual es muy bueno) y por lo tanto no me entere del lugar.
Este comentario no es para discutir ni esperar ningún tipo de compensación, simplemente es para pedir que tengan más cuidado la próxima vez que organicen eventos como este, ya que si en el E-ticket aparece que van a mandar la dirección del lugar, la gente problablemente esperará la invitación por el mismo lugar que obtuvo el E-Ticket o al menos en un correo especial.
Saludos
Alejandro N
2:10 pm
Tim,
I am in the process of automating and liberating for a mini retirement. My plans are to attend the Spanish language school in Samara, Costa Rica for 12 weeks of classes. Do you or anyone else out there know if this is a good choice for learning Spanish? I am planning to stay with a Costa Rican family for 4 weeks, then to rent an apartment for 8 weeks. Any comments will be helpful. Thanks, the 4 hour work week has changed my life forever.
4:31 pm
Alejandro, el evento aún no ha tenido lugar. Todavía puedes ir, es hoy.
7:14 pm
Hi Tim! This was very useful.
I will go to Buenos Aires in october/november having a “mini retirement” and hopefully working with micro enterprise innovation projects in BsAs when I`m a bit more fluent in the language.
I found your advice extremely useful as I dont speak _any_ Spanish. All the time until now, I have postponed my spanish learning… so I`m starting out with audiobooks now and hoping to beat the normal rate using these techniques. Maybe I will post some updates later on how this worked for me!
Looking forward to be free from negative stress, being challenged, traveling alone and building my automated businesses from beautiful BsAs.
By the way! Do you have any plans for ever coming to Norway (again?) ? Unlike Denmark we have beautiful mountains to go Snowboarding and the Northern light is a must see!
Thanks for an astonishing book…it really got my life settled and out of the workaholic race I was in. Priceless! I owe you big time.
Greetings from freezing Norway!
Bendik.
4:34 am
Hi Tim,
Im enjoying your book. Just picked up a copy at the aiport after leaving a very unsatisfying teaching job. Getting some really inspiring ideas for my business venture.
1977 was a great year, mmm. The snake. I can relate to you!!!
Susie ( Australia)
5:16 am
reason13,
I’ve used Live Mocha online for finding Chinese exchange partners, but I’ve had little luck finding good partners. I pay a tutor I met in Beijing to have conversations / give me lessons over Skype twice a week. She’s experienced, she speaks great English, and it’s cheap by U.S. standards — 80 RMB an hour, or about 12 USD. Contact me for her details if any of you are interested. It’s a little difficult to schedule lessons, as there’s a 12-hour time difference, but if you can stay up late or get up early, it’s worth it. But don’t steal my time slots!
seeker[underscor]of[underscore]erudition || earthlink || net
6:04 am
Tim,
Just wanted to let you know after reading your book last year, I moved from NYC, enrolled in the Hartnackschule in Berlin, and had a great time. One of the things that is not mentioned often, is the low cost of all education here in Germany. Hartnackschule only costs something like $200 US for 3 hours of instruction daily, five days a week for a month! You’d never get that much in class training in the States for such a ridiculously small amount of money. In fact, Germany has a number of Volkshochschule (adult education schools) which you can learn 3 hours of German every day for 3 months also for about $250, for the full three months. In addition to in class experiences, a great amount of learning went on outside the classroom, when I had to practice my German with students from France, Turkey, Iran, Italy and Morocco. What a great experience. Thanks so much for turning me on to this school.
8:38 am
Huge fan of your book and way of thinking. It changed my life. I am reading this on the morning of the 25th and am trying to catch a plane to spain. But I dont beleive it will be possible since I am in princeton NJ right now. But I would like to meet up with you sometime.
2:37 pm
Tim,
Last year a dear friend of mine was waffling over whether to take a severance package from his Fortune 500 Big Pharma employer after 14 years of service.
He had worked in a highly competitive environment all these years and admittedly didn’t love it. His wife, who he met there, was equally dissatisfied with the day in and day out. She had negotiated a part-time arrangement there she was so fed up with it.
His three kids complained they never got to see their Dad. They are wonderful children. I first met him in a meditation class where he was attempting to alleviate chronic migraines. His success with that was limited.
I handed him a copy of your book. (I’d one a box of them from you for a previous blog-post.)
He and his wife read it in one weekend. The next week he announced he was moving the family to Spain for a year.
Here’s their blog http://roy-family-adventure-year.blogspot.com/
Their adventure is amazing to watch and I’m so impressed with their ability to document it.
I noticed you are in Spain and that they have two guest rooms. You may want to interview them as an example of what a family can do with a little gumption and a lot of desire.
I know I’m inspired by what they’ve achieved.
7:47 pm
I’ve had much more success learning languages by diving in the deep end as you suggest, than through any other method (books, classes, even one-on-one ‘coversation’ meetings with a native speaker).
One tip I have is to go to a rural, backwoods area. In many countries this means you’ll learn a dialect rather than the ‘official’ language of the capital, but the advantages are many: in my experience (Romania) people tend to speak more slowly, are happier to repeat themselves if you don’t get it (maybe they repeat themselves anyway), and perhaps because you as a foriegner are more likely to be a curiosity, seem willing to spend more time conversing.
11:37 pm
Try not to completely discount the value generated by the structure of a classroom learning enviroment.
While a classroom may only be able to teach you the fundamentals, it’s a very strong way to get yourself a basic understanding to be able to better teach yourself the advanced technique of a language.
6:00 am
Tim,
Just wanted to say thanks for the gathering yesterday (in Madrid), it was great fun! Both Gaëlle and I had a great time.
Javi
1:33 pm
call me a skeptic, but Tim sometimes I doubt you can do everything you say you can do. Has anyone ever heard you speak the 7 languages you deemed yourself fluent in? Or some of your sporting feats…going from not being able to swim 2 laps to miraculously swimming 40 in only ten days. I will give you the benefit of the doubt but I do wonder if you like to bend the truth. I am not cynical more curous than anything as I do admire your book and life you live. Ciao
###
Hi Steve,
No worries. I appreciate the skepticism. For the languages, hundreds of people have heard me the six — not seven — languages. Classmates at school and readers here among them (at least for Spanish, German, English, and Chinese — that’s four). For the swimming, my brother and a few others are the only witnesses, but I encourage you to see some of the comments with similar results from readers.
Hope that helps! And again, the skepticism doesn’t bother me, as I’m a skeptic myself :)
All the best,
Tim
3:56 pm
Hi all,
Just found out about Tim and This inspired idea thru Yanik Silver.
I’m employed and starting to build my own business. now the principles in the interveiw and the book sound pretty straight forward.
My question is… Do I start to stay busy with social programmes and such now?
Or when I’m actually there at the point of working 4 hours?
And does any one have a template or programme of activities that I could edit for myself (I’m an extremely introverted ……Well Shy person)
Any feedback welcome
Regards
Mark
12:41 am
I’ve had much more success learning languages by diving in the deep end as you suggest, than through any other method (books, classes, even one-on-one ‘coversation’ meetings with a native speaker).
1:18 pm
Craig: Five or six different ways to say “I” in Nepali? I can only think of one - “ma”. There’s two different ways to say “I am”, and there’s the usual different words for I, you informal, you formal, we and them.
Now, if you start getting into Newar and all the other dialects, then the words will proliferate. Many of the ethnic groups have their own language, but almost all speak Nepali too, as well as Hindi (so they can watch those cheesy/awful/awesome movies).
Glad to read that you had an amazing time trekking out to Base Camp among other things. My father did that two years ago and brought back some small rocks, gorgeous pictures and a bunch of stories.
1:33 pm
Hey, Tim and other language-lovers who may be curious about the phrase “This is all Greek to me”:
http://www.omniglot.com/language/idioms/incomprehensible.php
(and what the Chinese say about it!)
Cheers,
André, from rainy Rio de Janeiro.
12:43 am
I am really interested in what Tim has done - I have a high level of spanish but when I go to Spain because I am English everyone insists on practising their English on me. Lo and behold the same happened in France this year - maybe I am going to the wrong places - I even carry on speaking French or spanish and they insist on speaking english ..help it drives me crazy I get nowhere and become demoralised.
Mel
1:36 am
I really love your articles on language. I spent a bit of