Thanks for the great comments and discussion! I’m going to close comments now, but if anyone would like to continue the debates that started here, there will be more opportunities. If you prefer, Torah can also be contacted directly via her site.

Danke!

Tim

I’d like to take this opportunity to clear up a few things in case anyone is concerned about it.

- I’m a licensed pilot. If you want to fact-check, you can contact the school where I did my training: Hesston College.

- I was emancipated in Montana at the age of 16. If you want to fact-check, you can contact the county clerk’s office. However, if for some reason you’re not successful and it’s crucial that you see evidence, contact me via my website and I’ll help you get the evidence.

- Old Order Amish people use buttons. But only the men, not the women. So the picture of the boy on Post II isn’t misrepresentative.

-To anyone who thinks it’s impossible for the steel part of a gun to feel cold after target practice, take into account that it takes x minutes to go from the field where I was practice shooting to the house. I didn’t hold the gun up to my head the instant I got done firing. I don’t know exactly how many minutes it takes for the steel to cool off from that particular kind of gun but by the time I got close to the house, it had certainly cooled off.

-To anyone who thinks I didn’t have a social security number before I escaped the Amish:

The Amish are indeed exempt from paying social security taxes but that doesn’t automatically mean that none of the Amish have social security cards, nor is it logical to conclude that there is therefore no reason to have one.

I don’t know how widely spread the practice of getting a social security card is (this is something I will research) but in my particular family, we all got a social security number at birth. I will have to ask my dad what exactly his reason was for getting that for us but I suspect it might have had something to do with a tax write-off (but I could be wrong).

-To anyone who thinks that Amish is not a language, please see my comments in either Part 1 or Part 2 in which I argue the reasons for calling it a language. You can also read my argument by going here: http://www.tkbventures.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=30

Please note that “there are two completely different kinds of criteria related to the distinction between dialect and language, linguistic criteria and social or political criteria.”

I end my argument with “my stance is still that Amish is a language (for social/political criteria if not for linguistic criteria). If anyone would like to contest this [with a solid argument], I’m very open to being persuaded otherwise. I’m interested in seeing what arguments can be put forth to solidly claim that Amish is not a language.”

-To anyone who thinks this story is slanted or an isolated incident or that I’m betraying my Amish heritage or that I’m portraying the Amish as only negative, here’s an excerpt of comments I made earlier addressing this:

‘My purpose is to create a balanced awareness of the Amish. The general public already knows the good sides of the Amish. I’m here to inform you of the negative sides. That I’m addressing the negative sides should NOT be construed as my presenting a one-sided view or branding an entire culture as only negative. You already know the good stuff. Now it’s time to know the not-so-good so you can help do something positive about it.’

For further elaboration, please see http://www.tkbventures.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=30

-It is very normal for Amish kids to get abused. Physical, verbal and emotional/psychological abuse are all very common Amish-wide. Sexual abuse tends to be more common in the stricter communities but it can happen in any community. I don’t know how common it is compared to other societies but that’s not the point. The point is that rape, incest and child molestation happen far too often and regularly and so far, nothing has been done about it to stop it permanently.

-As previously pointed out in the posts and in my comments, when I refer to the Amish, I’m referring to the Old Order Amish. The New Order Amish and the Swartzentruber Amish are not Old Order Amish. All of my statements about the Amish are statements about the Old Order Amish.

-It’s possible that some Amish make their own shoes. However, I don’t personally know of any Amish who do.

-The Old Order Amish don’t have electricity in their houses. Some Amish communities allow gas-powered fridges and stoves in their homes. Some Amish communities allow running water and indoor plumbing.

Torah

“I think it’s kinda dirty rotten of you to pick me apart about a typo that was acknowledged and corrected. That makes me wonder if you aren’t more interested in discrediting me than bringing out the truth.”

I didn’t see your follow up comments before responding to your initial comments.

“If you were in fact beaten, why does everyone involved in your life as an Amish girl scoff at your claims?

Not everyone who knew me before I escaped the Amish denies that I was beaten. My own parents don’t deny it and nor do my siblings.

“Are you willing to give an exact description of how those beatings allegedly happened? (As opposed to throwing out the generic “I was beaten”.)”

This is not a discussion that I’m interested in continuing on Tim’s blog, because I think it’s missing Tim’s point in posting my story. (If it isn’t, I’m sure Tim will let me know and I’ll happily continue the discussion here.) I think Tim wanted to post my story because he thought it might inspire readers to pursue their dreams no matter what obstacles they face, for readers to know that one is truly the master and architect of one’s lifestyle. For me, this posting is not about the details of how I suffered but rather that I removed myself from the conditions under which I was unhappy, despite how massively the unknown loomed in front of me.

If you’d like me to continue responding in public, please leave your comments on the blog on my website. In that case, it might also be a good idea to let readers know that you’ve continued the discussion on my site, so they know where to go to follow it if they’re interested.

Torah

Thank you for your kind comments and for the invitation! If you’d like, you can leave your contact info via my website and I’ll be sure to get in touch the next time I’m in LA.

To ‘Stephen A.’:

Saying that I answered questions thoroughly and with grace is the greatest compliment anyone could give me with regard to this blog post. Thank you!

My uncle called my parents right after I got to Montana to let them know that I was okay (I also talked to my parents at that time).

To ‘Robert:

Thank you for the info about that course that covered the topic of the Amish. Where did you go? What was the name of the course? I’d love to get in touch with the professor; I’m impressed they brought up the problems I talk about.

Please send me an email via my website. Thanks!

To ‘Paul (Cleveland, OH)’:

>Do you have any plans for setting up programs or systems to help >others trapped in the situation you so bravely escaped from?

Yes, Project Amish is about this. You can read more about it at http://www.tkbventures.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=31

To ‘buddha35’:

I hope you are very proud of yourself for de-programming. Congratulations! It takes courage and a lot of long, hard work to heal the wounds from one’s childhood experiences.

>I am angry that I spent so much of my life unaware of the beliefs that >guided my behaviour and swayed my decisions.

I know my advice is unsolicited but I will offer it anyway. : ) Don’t be angry with yourself; don’t let yourself be consumed by the negatives of the past. Look forward, not back. Be proud that you’ve become aware of the issues that you need to resolve and are resolving them. Many people go through life never getting as far as you have.

All my best to you,
Torah

“Torah, do you think the Amish community is behind the outside world in this respect, and that the outside world needs to intervene?”

Physical and sexual abuses are crimes in our country. It’s the duty of our law enforcement to stop crime, try to prevent crime, bring criminals to justice and defend the innocent. It doesn’t matter whether the perpetrators and victims are Amish or not. If someone commits a crime, he/she should be held responsible for it. And law enforcement should not make exceptions for any criminal or ignore the state of the innocent, whether he/she is Amish or not.

“Also, do you feel that the Amish freedom to cut off their children’s education at Grade 8 is a violation of the child’s human rights?”

In my opinion, it should be every child and adult’s human right to learn, to be provided a basic, objective and well-rounded education, and to be given the opportunity to acquire knowledge to the extent that he/she wishes. I am of the opinion that it is a violation of a child’s human rights to prevent him/her from acquiring knowledge.

Torah